Should Pac only get limited credit for beating an old ,weight drained,shot Oscar

You're right. Just be steady and slow, the virgin thread starter is getting his clit bleed..Look he's crying!!

 

But hoya really won convincingly against forbes, only problem was he could'nt ko him out!

 

This was very good win for Pac, Oscar looked good only last year and was the bigger man and the favourite. Jones hadn't looked good in 6 years hadn't beat anyone of note in 5 and his reflexes had gone plus Calzaghe was favourite and got knocked down. Pac win was very good but not great lets not get carried away Oscar was far from his best but Calzaghe win means nothing it merely a name.

 

Manny should get all the credit in the world, his performance was amazing and he's proved 75% of this forum wrong.
He Annihilated and humiliated Oscar in a way that no one could have predicted.
Granted Oscar is now shot but come on everybody that was one of the biggest upset's in recent year's and Manny's dominance and unbelievable speed made it look even worse for Oscar.
I have to say it was a very emotional end to the fight for me, I've loved watching Oscar for years and very sad to see him bow out like this, but don't take away Manny's credit, this was ****ing Awesome.
The King is Dead, Long live the King.

 

good way to put it


LONG LIVE THE KING i'm gonna put that in my sig

 

Word! :yep:good

 

That was an upset to many hardcore boxing fan's who had Mijares top ten p4p (including me), but this win for pacman is on a much bigger stage and seen by Million's.

He Shook up the World!

 

Freddie Roach was dead on the money with this one. First of all, boxing history tends to repeat itself, and it did in this one, in many ways.

A boxing axiom is that a fighter can get old, when they have that night when they walk in there and they simply do not have it anymore and seriously need to hang up the gloves. This was that night for Oscar. He had nothing - no speed, no power, no defense, and no life. He was listless and dead. It reminded me of Holmes-Ali. It was as if he was just gone.

Here is the difference between guys like Calzaghe/Hopkins and Oscar. The former two stay active, stay in the gym, take the best care of themselves, and never have big periods of inactivity. Oscar's layoffs finally caught up with him, as they will do, as you get older. That said, if you look back, regardless of activity, Oscar has been declining in past years, not only in terms of results, but also in terms of the level of his physical performances. He is less active with his punch volume, his punches are slower and less powerful, and he has been losing that zip to his feet, hands, and head movement. Roach was absolutely correct in that regard. Oscar himself was spot on when he said his heart and mind are still in it, but his body is simply no longer responding.

This is why he needs to retire. I truly believe that 80% of a fighter's brain damage takes place in the fights at the tail end of a fighter's career when he no longer has it anymore but continues on nevertheless. Every fight a fighter has while in that state exponentially increases the damage. Roy is doing it, Evander is now doing it, guys like Hearns did it, Ali, I can go on and on. This was what I call 'truly past-it' fight number one for Oscar. Let's hope he's smart enough to make it his last.

Another thing that was evident based on the performance, and which Roach accurately predicted before the fight, was that Oscar would be weight drained. He looked like an OVERTRAINED fighter in there. A guy who left it all in the gym. The fact that age 35 he was not only at his lowest weight in 12 years, but was at fight weight a week or so before - way too soon, and only gained 2 pounds a full day after weighing in, tells me that he had overtrained. Roach knew it too.

A fighter who does not consistently stay in the gym, but takes lengthy periods of time off, needs to have longer training camps so that he can very gradually work his way into top shape. This is particularly true when a fighter gets older. Training hard is not enough. What happens is that these guys wait and only give themselves a month or two, work super hard, and think that because they are working hard they are doing the right thing and will be in great shape because of it, when really what they are doing is actually undermining their own constitution. That is how Oscar looked to me in there.

Back in 1892, criticizing Sullivan's training before the Corbett fight, Jake Kilrain said that he had not trained for enough months, and, “They seemed to think only of taking off his weight, without considering at the same time he was losing vitality.” History repeats itself.

All that said, I thought Manny looked fantastic and put on a brilliant performance. Oscar's horrid performance should not detract much from the dazzling spectacle that was Manny Pacquiao. He was so active, with consistent head movement, good guard, springy footwork, a good consistent offensive output with both hands, working the body and head, timing his punches well, working the range beautifully, pulling the trigger on offense and defense when he needed to, wonderful speed and snap to his punches. It was a wonderful exhibition.

Yes, Pac-man v. Fat-man is the fight to make, at 140. At this point, I'd give the edge to Pac on superior defense and speed. But, the fight I'd truly like to see at 147 would be Margarito v. Pac-man.

 

Ummm, he deserves A LOT of credit. Oscar's last fight was at 150. He only had to go down a few pounds. Manny had only fought ONCE at 135, for crying out loud. Heck yes he deserves a lot of credit , no limited credit.

 

Oscar was a shot fighter in the ring, and I mean completely shot. The cut back down to 147 seems to have hurt him even more, even though it was quite clear he was nowhere near what he once was against a guy like Forbes.

Still, I felt he was just too big and too powerful for Pacquiao, who I didn't think would acclimate very well to 147 pounds. It turned out to be the opposite in regards to how each fighter adjusted to the weight. I thought Oscar still had a lot more than he showed last night, and I was wrong, but you can't give Pacquiao anything less than full credit. His performance was perfect.

 

Calzaghe was supposed to win, Pac wasn't.

 

a few things

- remember the size advantage that dlh had over pac(even though it didnt help dlh, it still worth noting). jones had no real significant size advantage over calzaghe

-dlh, is washed up but jones was even moreso. dlh gave pbf(p4p #1 fighter) a close(though mayweather's safety first style made it closer then it should have been) while jones on the other hand was coming off a win over a washed up overblowjn trinidad

-usually, even when dlh loses, hes competitvie, this time he was flat out dominated like never before, while jones had already been starched twice before meeting calzaghe.

Both calzaghe and pac-man won over washed up fighters but dlh was still more credible opponent as opposed to jones thus pac-man gets more credit, how much more is up in the air.

 

Now Oscars shot.......What happened to ODLH knocking out Pac?

 

I knew this sort of dog**** would be posted if Manny won.

In Oscar's last 2 fights, he took the undisputed world pound-for-pound number 1 to an SD then beat Forbes arguably more comfortably than Berto did in Forbes's next fight - and Berto is supposed to be the next big thing at 147.

There was no real hard evidence that Oscar was shot going into the fight last night - not like RJJ getting sparked cold by guys he would have annihilated in his prime, guys nowhere near the p4p class of the guys Oscar has lost to, and then dropping down a level (or two) to fight non top 10 ranked guys like Prince Nobody, Hanshaw (stopped in 4 or 5 rounds in his next fight after Jones outpointed him) or a horribly rusty, overweight and shot-to-**** Tito Trinidad. The Oscar who fought Floyd and Forbes is a far better fighter than the Jones who fought Hanshaw and Trinidad, that should be obvious if you take the blinkers off.

Manny Pacquiao jumped TWO weight divisions to fight Oscar, a former flyweight world champ (112lbs) fighting a former middleweight champ (160lbs).

Pacquiao's win over Oscar is one of the best victories in recent years, Calzaghe slapping around the corpse of Roy Jones was a shameful sham of a fight. The two wins could not be further apart in value.