Should the Catskill team get more credit than Tyson himself for 85-88?

Not really all his problems started directly after Cus had passed,a few years later he would have been a bit more mature with no givens ever involved or king,even rooney who was also his baby sitter on him 24/7 would not let half those things happen!

 

They all deserved equal credit. His management/training team did a great job. But, they can't fight the fights for him. They were a team - Team Tyson.

 

You cannot have equal credit,if the team itself that being cus got you into boxing in the first place,this wasn't a fighter walking into a gym and meeting someone new to train him...before Cus Tyson wasn't even a fighter he was in a type reform school who cus introduced to boxing.Tyson would have always had to pay homage to Cus no matter what.

 

Two questions:

1) How well could Tyson have done if he'd found a better team to fill Rooney's shoes?

2) Do Cus & the Catskills team deserve any of the blame for not preparing Mike to better deal with movement, holding, and overall adversity?

 

How he going to have a better team? Who was in boxing at that time other than Rooney who only knew the Cus system in which he was developed to fight like?


Where did Tyson lack diversity? If there was a lack luster fight that was Tyson not listening,one can see this in the few fights he was in,with Tillis/Tucker of Rooney begging in the corner to start throwing more punches,i remember in a fight ,one of those where rooney is yelling at him to punch out of the clinches.

 

Didn't mean a better team than Rooney's but a team better than the one he ended up with (the guys who treated his eye with a water balloon in Tokyo). Leaving Rooney was a mistake but I think that Tyson could have been dominant for a few more years with a more suitable replacement to Rooney.

Guys yell great stuff from in the corner all the time. If their fighters fail to execute though, that says something about their preparation. Some of the limitations that Tyson showed against Tillis and Tucker coincide with those he showed in his eventual loss to Douglas and his subsequent underperformances.

 

Oh...well he couldn't do any worse than the ones he had,hell I could've probably had a better understanding than them at that time even...


Yea im not sure who was around,but Atlas was still there as well,the thing is ,would he have been better off with a brand new style like minded trainer or continue to be his own trainer which he really was? I would say who knows,the one thing that was safe is sticking to his original blue print,im not sure other trainers would have been able to do that? Tyson didn't want to be trained after Rooney he just wanted to go with the flow and do as little as possible in the gym.

 

Yeah because the likes of Richie Giachetti were clueless nobodies....

 

So the so called " baddest man on the planet " was really only ever a halfwit who couldn't do anything by himself. He needed constant instructions much like Frank Bruno.

Yeah, I can just picture now fighters like SRR, Duran, Ali, Mayweather, DLH, Hagler, Leonard, Hearns, add any 50 more of your own choice, listening intently to every word from their cornermen.

Alternatively, you hatch a game plan in the gym, and you go out and try to execute that game plan and try to adapt if it doesn't work as you hoped it would.

Oops, my bad. I forgot Tyson only ever had a plan A.

 

CAYTON.

O.k I notice this a lot, everyone getting warm & runny over the catskill team, so let me educate you.

D'mato's primary interest with Tyson was boxing related. I don't doubt that he developed a bit of a soft spot for him, but only because of the boxing. Jacobs, knowing he was dying of Leukemia, conspired with Cayton to keep his illness a secret & coerce Tyson into signing a new management contract, knowing full well that Tyson disliked Cayton & wouldn't sign if he knew Jacobs was dying, so that his (Jacobs) wife would receive his share of the profits.
Rooney was a second rate trainer & a drunk & Steve Lott was just a weird guy that sucked Tysons nutsack.

Tyson's undoing wasn't splitting with the Catskill crew, it was losing interest in boxing & hooking up with King.

 

The quality of movement and the speed of Tyson when he had the entire Catskill team in his corner made him look unbeatable.

Fighter's who didn't show up to fight, held and clinched simply prolonged their beating all the way to round 12.

The exception was against Tillis, Mike was partying, drinking and coked up hard, and not in the best shape - as a result he got hit too many times and experienced a beating even though he won the fight.

Cus D'amatos standards were so high he would tell Mike after he had knocked his opponent out, that Mike's hands were moving too much, that if he did that against a better fighter he would get hit, not talking KO or being beaten, just the idea of Mike being hit was unthinkable and unacceptable at that time.

 

So he was coked up, partying and drinking and out of shape for Tillis now.... Gets better this. :rofl:rofl

 

This is absurd. He was the one actually in the ring.

 

Yet it's so easy to blame his loss to Douglas on not having his "team" around him.

 

Giachetti wasn't with him until after the Douglas fight.