Should the inability to secure fights affect P4P rating?

Yes resume plays a part. You have to fight the best of your peers. Simples. Take Loma.. He is clearly an insanely gifted individual. But I'd like to see him beat the best at 135 too. A Linares or a Garcia... Walter's, GRJ, Linares etc.. That is heading for a great resume. Note: It will be interesting to see what Walters & Russell do from hereon because those two wins could get better over time. I can't say I have him #1 now but I think he's a near cert for future status.

 

Well Alex,

It all depends who the fighter is around these parts and most boxing forums. For instance, now when Andre Ward is pretty much a consensus #1 p4p guy, some guys will say p4p lists are silly and dont mean anything. However should someone else capture it, a little more to their liking, they will be hailing a "new p4p king" and it will mean something.

But I would tend to agree with what you said. Lets take Golovkin for instance. So he couldnt get big, meaningful, fights at 160? Well Ward was willing to fight him early/mid last year at 168. Instead he chose to fight an IBF mando injury replacement and Kell Brook. So no meaningful 160 fight was there for Golovkin? Why bring up a WW when u could have had a similar UK fight and tried to fight Degale? They didnt even try to get Degale. Instead Loeffler says "We would have fought Degale if he was offered to us". Well, when you are on the horn with Hearn why not ask about him?

 

Lomas resume could end being very good. Thats why I dont have an issue at all with his next fight. They arent all going to big fights. Thats not possible or realistic. I sincerely hope Arum doesnt hinder his potential resume. Arum holds grudges.

 

P4P is your ability to beat anyone at any weight with your skills alone.
If you are not fighting the guys at your own weight, how can people properly judge how you would do at higher weight? Terrence Crawford should be #2 on everyone list after Andre Ward for clearing out 140 but people want to give that credit to fighters who have accomplished less because they like that guy.

 

I completely disagree. That it's not the boxer's fault for not getting the opponents they might deserve just shows that p4p can't be predominantly about resume. In fact if you think p4p is about resume you're missing the point of p4p. Yes quality of opposition is important to a degree in measuring ability but it can't be the determining factor. If a boxer has proven enough ability he's there, regardless of his promoter and whether there might be opponents he's not able to get in the ring with. Crawford's opposition was good enough before Postol to show he's amongst the very best, and Rigo not being able to secure opponents isn't reason to move him down or out of a p4p list. That boxers are avoided is a fact that we shouldn't hold against them in p4p comparison.

 

The other side of that is you have fighters that purposely avoid other elite competition to chase money. Example Golovkin not fighting BJS for Canelo money, Lomachenko fighting the cheapest guys he can while claiming to be "the best", Pacquiao fighting Jeff Horn,WTF?
Thank God for camera footage. Everyone has totally come off as hypocrites lately. I'm not a big fan of Floyd but people shitted on him for years just to turn around and repeat his very words, verbatim, to please their audience and protect their guy from criticism.
You can't BE the money fighter and avoid fights.

 

Totally true of course. I just don't see why that has to affect p4p placement. It's not like there's prestige and money in being considered top p4p. What 'ducking' should affect is divisional standing. Because you can duck someone at your weight, but a middleweight can't duck a flyweight. But then so much ducking and also catchweight fights is why divisional championships don't mean much anymore and we look more to fighters proving p4p worth! I guess we might make two lists. I've tried to stress the semantic difference between 'greatest' and 'best' before. Greatest meaning resume and proved class, best meaning ability and who beats who if they were the same size.

 

I'll add, when you consider p4p so much about resume and therefore drop someone who apparently ducks a threat it's like it becomes a 'right' just for beating a perceived big name. That often clouds the possible lesser quality of a division or weight area and the opponent's true level, without even getting at the degree of dominance and impressiveness the considered boxer displayed, which is what's actually indicative of ability.

I do definitely agree that a 'ducked fighter' should fight as frequently as possible against the best opposition available to force the fight. When he manages to get the fight it's good enough however that the rewards are divisional standing, money, and public respect and historical legacy. P4P praise only may or may not additionally come. P4P doesn't need to be looked at as an objective, or be all end all.

Loma has said he wants to be regarded as a boxing artist. He's displayed artisty that goes beyond this being a competitive sport, and I don't care if it was only against a Jason Sosa. That skill and artistry is more important than resume is just my opinion I guess... do what you want with your list