Should this have been called a knockdown for Machen against Frazier? (Poll)

Technically perhaps…but did the rules empower the ref to make such a call in general and/or for that particular fight?

Maybe a work around might’ve been to have a ruled a point deduction against Frazier for holding.

Anyway, just on Machen’s left itself - that was a beautifully timed punch and just after Machen himself got clocked big time by Frazier’s own left hook.

Even if it was ruled a tech KD, or if Joe literally touched touched down or a point deduction enforced, he obviously still goes on to stop Eddie, exactly as he actually did.

 

I just read that. @apollack voted NO.

I’m deferring to that call.

If you wouldn’t mind Adam, could you provide a brief breakdown as to why you wouldn’t call that a KD - including the address of IF Frazier did save him from touching down by grabbing Machen’s legs (which you might not have seen it that way, if course)?

If you didn’t see it that way, then I’m posing a “what if” the grabbing WAS perceived to have prevented Joe hitting the deck - would/could that have “constituted” a KD?

Thanks mate.

 

Machen and Folley were two excellent fighters of their era.

It can be argued that they weren’t always consistent but when you’re a long standing contender who has been unduly shut out, it might not be surprising that, while fighting under a glass ceiling with no promotion in sight, you might not always post your best performance and given a long enough time on the fringe, you might stutter and fall victim to an upset.

They certainly weren’t given any breaks and a better informed Machen would’ve beaten Ingo IF Johansson had honoured the contractual obligation to a rematch.

The irony is that while Folley and Machen didn’t receive their just shots at the title, beating them afforded other contenders far more credit and reward than was ever directly afforded to Zora and Eddie themselves.

Oh, “other contenders” excludes one Sonny Liston who was also ostracised for an undue period during Patterson’s reign.

In contrast, Ingo’s win over the long precluded Machen basically propelled Ingo straight into a title shot - and Patterson admitted that he thought Ingo was a soft touch - a belief that apparently secured Ingo his shot, the opposite reasoning for assessing true eligibility.

Clearly, the likes of Folley and Machen (and Liston) were viewed as far greater threats.

 

No knockdown because neither his gloves nor legs touched the ground. Correct no call.

Frazier might have been momentarily buckled/stunned, and although brief holding is a minor foul, it doesn’t create a knockdown where there is none. If you notice, Machen also moved into Frazier as well, which added to the awkwardness of the brief moment.

 

Thanks Adam. Succinct breakdown and very fair rationale. Thanks for taking the time.