Hello, Should we rank the HW champions from the past who were no bigger than crusierweights with the more modern SHW's of today, or vice versa? Does anyone think its unfair to have these men no bigger than CW's ranked above the modern SHW's in the all time rankings? When some of them never thought a SHW at the championship level? Thoughts?
I used think this way but when you look at it quite quickly the list gets narrowed down something rotten. Leaves you with maybe just Patterson and Rocky who never faced big men whilst champion. But both did face big fringe contenders in their career so you have to extrapolate a bit. But extrapolation is better than omitting. After all when Rocky was champion there was a huge population still and not one of those men was able to beat him.
Max Baer is the type of guy that today would be in the 235 lb range...where, though Rocky M. could have bulked up to 210+.....his style would have been negatively impacted.
As most know who visit here regularly, I'm the 'eras' guy. IMO you just can't compare eras. Reverse the eras and you have completely different matchups. Put the prime Klit brothers and Lennox back into the post-Czar-ist Russian era, say 1918-1922 and match that version of them against a 21st century prime Dempsey. Put the same Super Heavies mentioned back into 1940 and have them face a 21st century prime Louis. There is no 'rank' to calculate IMO. The modern boys would be smaller and the guys from days past would be bigger. I don't think the older guys 'skill set' would diminish with modern training technique, possible PED use (oops), etc. Even my hero Floyd Patterson would have been a 210-15 pound whirling dervish (with his ATG HW hand speed) in the 21st century. My somewhat limited $0.02.
Oh jesus what a ****ing idiots. "Rocky would be 210 today" Marciano weighed 185 pounds and he would be equal in 1880 or 3015.
agree, but there are some hws that could benefit from weights and peds (modern training), like the following: muhammad ali - 225-230 lbs larry holmes - 220-225 lbs george forema - 235-245 lbs sonny liston - 235-245 lbs dempsey - 210-215 i think they could all bulk up to those weights and have more power and strength without sacrificing speed. also max baer could obviously bulk up to 230 - 240 lbs with that huge frame and shoulders, no doubt
Ali and holmes were perfect just like they were.ali at 212 and holmes at 209 . more weight would not help them just would make then slower ,worse with poor stamina, ali at man had the frame to carry 230 pounds yes.but as bóxer and for his style his best weight was 212. Sonny listón was totally over muscled at 220 pounds noway 240 pounds would be good for him.dempsey could carry 205 without losing too much.forman and baer are the only who based their styles and natural big frame could carry 240 pounds looking good
When someone asks me should we move the heavyweight limit my answer has always been no. Technically there is no minimum or maximum weight limit in the division. Anyone can participate. However, you could make a case that boxing fans are missing some good fights at 200-215 pounds. A top ten ring magazine heavyweight at 200-215 pounds is rare these days. Can anyone name the last one ranked at 200-215? The Heavyweights keep getting bigger, and by saying bigger I mean in terms of height, weight, and reach, not fat. All of the top prospect these days seem to be 6'4 or taller. The top amateur talent at super heavyweight is pretty much the same. If this trend continues as I predict it will, I might be okay with a super cruiserweight division ( 200-215 pounds ) so the fans can enjoy the action as this is currently a void in boxing. I know, we don't need more champions. That is true, but we do need more action. My guess is the action at 200-215 would be better that what we are seeing now.
It is what is is...a man who weighs in at over 200 lbs. is officially a heavyweight. The term 'super-heavyweight' is deceiving...very few have been actually any good. I'd pick a Louis or Holy over most heavies and they rarely scaled above 210. Would anyone pick Tyson Fury to beat them?
what like the modern SHW champs now? Remember Povetkin gassing and weazing against Huck? Lennox Lewis versus Mavrovic and Wlad versus Brewster? Total gass outs. Stamina is rationed out. Spurt fighting is crucial to superheavyweights. With older diet and training techniques even superheavyweights would weigh less. Sometimes I think it a pity We don't get to see what the modern guys would be like under old school natural training and diet without the artificial extras. We certainly did not see the old timers enhanced in the modern way. How do we know they would be better or worse for it? Dosnt it work both ways?
Something needs to change. That is for sure. Boxing has a rich history. The heavyweight title is still a hot commodity. I don't think it is best represented nor has it been improved with the explosion of giant sized boxers. It's changed beyond recognition more than any other weight class. Especially at championship level. To me these 260 pound guys are not descending from Jack Dempsey or even Muhammad Ali sized heavyweights. They dont resemble that identity. They are the new species of superheavyweight that could not exist before newer size enhancing methods came in. If it were up to me I would "'re brand" cruiser as "Heavyweight" because the modern cruisers are as heavy as Larry Holmes was on the night. Dump the name "cruiser" it never caught on, and give the New guys a new weight class called "super heavyweight" because they are super heavyweights! There would be no confusion. It would be in line with Olympic boxing. Nobody looks back at George Foreman and call his gold medal the superheavyweight gold, nor do they call Lennox Lewis a heavyweight gold medallist because he wasn't. He was a new species. If cruiser became heavyweight the general public that identifies with Mike Tyson, Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes will recognise and identify with modern guys of that size today If they were called heavyweight as they should be. Otherwise the public are tuning in and watching the wrong weight class. Larry Holmes was not 6'7" and 260. That's the Carnera division. I think super cruiserweight is a bad idea. It's only aficionados of boxing that know what a cruiserweight even is and its been around for 30 odd years! I have a hunch if cruiserweight has not caught on with the general public after 30 odd years it never will and supercrusier would be about as intresting as donkey racing. Even though it amounts to exactly the same thing I believe 're branding' cruiserweight is the way forward. It does not create a new division and could signify interest in an unfashionable division that like all other weight classes has grown bigger anyway. Superheavyweights could then go out and create a new history and identity for themselves. As they should.
When someone asks me should we move the heavyweight limit my answer has always been no. Technically there is no minimum or maximum weight limit in the division. Anyone can participate. However, you could make a case that boxing fans are missing some good fights at 200-215 pounds. A top ten ring magazine heavyweight at 200-215 pounds is rare these days. Can anyone name the last one ranked at 200-215? The Heavyweights keep getting bigger, and by saying bigger I mean in terms of height, weight, and reach, not fat. All of the top prospect these days seem to be 6'4 or taller. The top amateur talent at super heavyweight is pretty much the same. If this trend continues as I predict it will, I might be okay with a super cruiserweight division ( 200-215 pounds ) so the fans can enjoy the action as this is currently a void in boxing. I know, we don't need more champions. That is true, but we do need more action. My guess is the action at 200-215 would be better that what we are seeing now. Yes the do, but like I said they are rare. From 2000-2016, maybe there are 4-5 names. Adamek was almost always over 215 pounds as a heavyweight.