Shouldn't Pavlik beat a REAL Super Middleweight before calling out Calzaghe?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by BigBone, Sep 23, 2008.


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  1. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    In many fans' argument David Haye should STFU with his big loud mouth and undisputed CW belts and beat a REAL HW before calling out - or better: badmouthing - the clear #1 in Wladimir Klitschko. Another argument that the Bonin fight doesn't count because he's a bum. He has to fight a REAL, naturally HW sized top opponent and let's see where he can go from there. He can call out anyone with a legitimate win in the new division as he will be rightfully ranked based on his performance.

    Well... fighting former MW champ Taylor and Hopkins (coming from a loss) a few pounds north of 160 puts Pavlik in the same position. You see Joe Calzaghe did vs. Mikkel Kessler what Hopkins failed to pull off vs. Taylor: beat the very best young fighter the division could offer in his veteran days (well, if you count Lacy, that makes 2 young guns, the 2 best fighters the division had to offer in 10 years. The difference between Lacy and Kessler that Mikkel proved in the Mundine and other quality fights - Siaca (WBA belt), Andrade, Beyer (WBC belt) - that he's not only a capable but a proven SMW, that's why he himself unified 2 belts and that's why he's the clear #1 in the division after Calzaghe left - despite the competitive loss.

    So how come the large number of fans think they can mandate Joe to fight Pavlik (a champion and a good champion at 160, potentially a great champion in the future), but definitely NOT a proven SMW - when Calzaghe beat a proven, bigger, more skilled (you can argue with that if you want) and unified champ at 168-er in Kessler?



    IMO a Calzaghe-Pavlik fight would be a HUGE fight. But first show me what he can do at 168 vs. a REAL, legitimate super middleweight! He didn't even unify vs. the great Abraham at MW to begin with, so you might argue that he's got unfinished business at 160 but that's not the point here. Fight Mikkel Kessler, Lucian Bute or Anthony Mundine at 168, beat a legitimate, natural SMW opponent and then call out the champion in the division.

    You know what? I don't know whether Haye or Pavlik can beat Klitschko or Calzaghe. Maybe yes, maybe no. But first, these two GREAT FIGHTERS with undisputed belts should prove that they are capable of beating a top opponent in the desired divison. Then we can talk about a real challange for the champion Wladimir Klitschko and Joe Calzaghe. The thread is not about Pavlik alone (who's fortunately not a badmouth ***** but a really nice guy) but his team, the fans and anyone else who's shouting Calzaghe! before putting down something on the table.



    Agree, disagree? Discuss! :thumbsup
     
    BigBone, Sep 23, 2008
    BigBone, Sep 23, 2008
    #1
  2. treva1977

    treva1977 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    i agree.i think he is moving well too fast.he shouldn`t have taken this fight with b hop either.you dont just step up a weight and face the best(in calzaghe).he needs to prove he can fight at that weight first.pehaps a fight with froch would be an ideal stepping stone.
     
    treva1977, Sep 23, 2008
    treva1977, Sep 23, 2008
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  3. 1lehudson

    1lehudson Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    well how many did Joe beat before he fought Hopkins?
     
    1lehudson, Sep 23, 2008
    1lehudson, Sep 23, 2008
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  4. berserkafied

    berserkafied Active Member Full Member

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    I personally agree with you 100%, but what you're going to get is a torrent of posts stating how "Well it was Calzaghe called out Pavlik and then ducked him" etc. While I don't agree with these statements, i find it hard to defend Joe when he keeps contradicting himself....Maybe he's just trying to draw up some interest for a possible fight in '09?
     
    berserkafied, Sep 23, 2008
    berserkafied, Sep 23, 2008
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  5. madpup

    madpup Active Member Full Member

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    The difference between what Wlad and Calzaghe are doing is that Wlad is fighting his mandatories, whilst JC is fighting a a way over the hill RJJ. So Pavlik has more a reason to call out Calzaghe right now.
     
    madpup, Sep 23, 2008
    madpup, Sep 23, 2008
    #5
  6. CarlesX7

    CarlesX7 Shit got real! Full Member

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    I see your point and I agree. BUT the fact is the Calzaghe camp has been talking **** towards Pavlik, trying to diminish him, when they obviously don't want anything to do with him in the ring. I mean Joe shouldn't be afraid of a middleweight, now, should he :think
     
    CarlesX7, Sep 23, 2008
    CarlesX7, Sep 23, 2008
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  7. daz52

    daz52 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He proved he could fight at SMW when he beat Taylor @ 164 pounds
     
    daz52, Sep 23, 2008
    daz52, Sep 23, 2008
    #7
  8. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Welcome to ESB!

    That's not the point. (But do you really think he's afraid of Pavlik when he fought the bigger and (at the time considered stronger) Lacy and the bigger and more accurate Kessler?) Calzaghe has fought more credible fighters at 168 than Pavlik, who's 168 credibility is zero. But it seems Calzaghe is nothing but a scared runner if he doesn't fight Pavlik, a guy from a smaller weight class who never even stepped in the ring vs. a legitimate SMW. How's that? If not the is-Wlad-a-runner-if-he-doesn't-fight-Haye-right-away argument, how about this: is Kelly Pavlik a runner because he refused to fight Paul Williams, who's MW credibility is ZERO, to fight an old Hopkins instead? If Hatton calls out Margarito and Tony fights an aging former P4P champ in Mosley instead, is he a runner? Does Joan Guzman has the right to call out champ Ricky Hatton in the LWW division without fighting one single credible LWW?
     
    BigBone, Sep 23, 2008
    BigBone, Sep 23, 2008
    #8
  9. konaman

    konaman Boxing Addict Full Member

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    And that was because of the 4 pound weight difference? I don't think so, it was a rematch, Taylor adjusted. The whole Pavlik vs Calzaghe thing is a lot more to do with Calzaghe than it is Pavlik, people want to see Joe beat a prime quality hungry young American fighter (don't insult Pavlik with comparisons to Jeff Lacy - Pavlik has beaten a high quality fighter on two occasions convincingly).

    The man at MW vs the man at SMW, it just feels right. I do however agree somewhat with the OP (except for the ridiculous CW-HW comparison), i feel if Pavlik REALLY wants the fight he should seek to prove himself at the appropriate weight. This is where Bernard 'the measuring stick' Hopkins comes into play.
     
    konaman, Sep 23, 2008
    konaman, Sep 23, 2008
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  10. ashley

    ashley Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Fair call
     
    ashley, Sep 23, 2008
    ashley, Sep 23, 2008
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  11. Haye

    Haye Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Disagree. Haye has every right to go after WK, and so does Pavlik to go after BHop. They are true champions of their divisions and deserve a pop at the cherry straight away if they want it.
     
    Haye, Sep 23, 2008
    Haye, Sep 23, 2008
    #11
  12. mexican legend

    mexican legend MVP! Full Member

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    He has that body were he can go up in weight easily and still have is power. I think he can perform well at that weight.
     
    mexican legend, Sep 23, 2008
    mexican legend, Sep 23, 2008
    #12
  13. 10count

    10count Regular Full Member

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    Pavlik may have bitten off more than he can chew in taking the B-Hop fight coz-and il probably get slated for this- I think Pavlik is a one trick poney. Dont get me wrong, its one hell of a trick. Lead with the jab and throw the hard straight right, mix in a few uppercuts and hooks and the other guy will fall. However, B-Hop is one of the most intelligent fighters on the planet and if he can get past Pavliks jab, he will take him to school, big time!!
    Personally, should have took the Abraham fight.
     
    10count, Sep 23, 2008
    10count, Sep 23, 2008
    #13
  14. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    If Jones can get a fight with Calzaghe having not beaten a top 10 ranked opponent at any weight since 2004, then anyone can.
     
    DINAMITA, Sep 23, 2008
    DINAMITA, Sep 23, 2008
    #14
  15. CarlesX7

    CarlesX7 Shit got real! Full Member

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    Good to be here :smile

    1. "do you really think he's afraid of Pavlik when he fought the bigger and (at the time considered stronger) Lacy" - Joe fought Lacy almost 3 years ago. Joe is obviously NOT the same fighter he was 2-3 years ago. I don't know -and u don't know- if he would face a Lacy now.

    2. "...and the bigger and more accurate Kessler?" - I liked Kessler, but where is he now?

    3. "rest of your post" - I quote PACFAN84: "If Jones can get a fight with Calzaghe having not beaten a top 10 ranked opponent at any weight since 2004, then anyone can".
     
    CarlesX7, Sep 23, 2008
    CarlesX7, Sep 23, 2008
    #15
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