Simultaneously great offensive and defensive fighters.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by El Bujia, Apr 19, 2011.


  1. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Obviously the term "great" is subjective, but I'm looking for fighters who showed (and not necessarily on a consistent basis) the ability to seamlessly blend the two elements together. Give analysis. Name specific performances if you want to.
     
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  2. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    Analysis included:

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VldGL5Un7Ds[/ame]
     
  3. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    In terms of blending, Duran, Napoles, Zarate, Charles perhaps. Robinson when he wasn't just overwhelming people with the offence.

    Oh and of course Monzon ;)
     
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  4. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    To be honest, most fighters do this to some extent, it's just the super athletes like Ali, Leonard, Jones etc. that sometimes lack it.
     
  5. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Tony Canzoneri. He is a pressure fighter who would make you lead and counter you afterwards. His biggest assets were his judge of distance and timing for both his offensive and defensive maneuvers. Due to these assets he could work on very small security margins defensivly and land vicious blows even at the higher weights he fought at and against bigger opponents. The fight where he shows off those abilities at it´s best is his three round knockout of Jackie Kid Berg. At times he would slip punches so narrowly that you´d think they landed and only can see that they didn´t when you pause the film at the right moment. At the same time they enabled him to hurt and finally knockout a bigger and very durable HoFer.
    I say he was a sgreat defensivly as he was offensivly but looked better offensivly since his style was very risky and thus he got tagged quite often - without his great chin he never ever would have had the career he had.
     
  6. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    When I said "subjective", I didn't mean it to the point where plugging Zarate was acceptable. I've also never thought Robinson had anything like great defense.
     
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  7. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Some of my picks:

    A young Wilfredo Gomez (up to the Zarate fight): One of the very best I've ever seen at blending brilliant upper-body movement, footwork, angles, and pin point punch picking. Just a beautiful all-arounder to watch in his younger days.

    John Conteh: See above, although Conteh's head movement in particular was superior, his anticipation of blows. He obviously didn't have Gomez's footwork, though, although his balance was impeccable.

    Jung-Koo Chang: Again, not always consistently, but at his best he had an innate sense of offensive and defensive timing that amazed me.

    Eder Jofre: Upon rewatching footage of him I've come to this conclusion. I always rolled my eyes at the old scribes referring to him as this Robinson-esque, cutie defensive master/boxer-puncher, etc. But recently I've come to understand it. Just an amazingly inclined technical boxer-puncher.

    Canizales/Lora: Canizales was obviously a great offensive fighter, but, while hittable, he showed some truly outstanding defensive skills immersed in all of that offensive work. Great anticipation, fully engrained fundamental head movement, brilliant angle work, etc. Lora on the other hand is typically reknowned as more of a defensive master, although at times he showed some truly impressive, aggressive offense, blending all of what we expect of him defensively seamlessly, although he admittedly became more hittable on this form.

    Ayub Kalule: A certain poster's favourite, although not meant to be a plug for him. A silky smooth stylist who, through consistent head and upper-body movement, always managed to make himself an especially difficult target even in the midst of his offensive surges.

    Georgie Benton: Supremely well-schooled technician, always in control of what he was doing. Capable of playing either role equally effectively.
     
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  8. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    Well there's a distinction to be made between one one hand fighters who were both great offensively and great defensively and on the other hand fighters who were great at using both their offensive and defensive abilities together, whether or not those abilities were objectively great in and of themselves (though obviously nobody's going to be throwing crap journeymen into the mix). Since you mentioned the idea of "blending" and all that I presumed you were after the latter. And the former would make for a pretty boring thread since all manner of fighters would be included.

    To follow up on what I was saying earlier someone like Leonard would probably be a good example of how that distinction is relevant - certainly he could defend very well/greatly when pressured, great reflexes, ability to pull away etc. - and he was certainly great offensively both in terms of raw attributes like speed and power and in terms of more skill-based stuff like picking shots, finishing and such. But in terms of actually combining the two by countering/avoiding counters, boxing off the back foot (rather than just alternating between running and punching which many confuse with that) he could somtimes be shown up a little (though admittedly only at the very top level - Duran, Hagler, Kalule etc.).

    Zarate was always great at combining the two regardless of whether you want to diss them when in isolation. Brilliant at exploiting the slightest opening to start an exchange, a master at slipping punches and always knew where the gap was to come back. If only he had a better chin.

    A lot of people seem to be in the habit of having a go at Robinson's defence of late, probably down to reading too much into his later scraps where he just fell back on punching the **** out of the other guy without worrying too much about what came the other way (which he could get away with). I'm sure you've watched this but it's probably worth another look

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcyqmnXNY-w[/ame]
     
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  9. The Funny Man 7

    The Funny Man 7 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think Burley fits this description.
     
  10. TIGEREDGE

    TIGEREDGE Boxing Addict Full Member

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    durans seriously underated defensively
     
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  11. El Bujia

    El Bujia Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I was hoping it wouldn't come to this.
     
  12. TIGEREDGE

    TIGEREDGE Boxing Addict Full Member

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    sorry great at both yer wanted
     
  13. DonBoxer

    DonBoxer The Lion! Full Member

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  14. dpw417

    dpw417 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Far from original picks...but Duran and Napoles amaze me with how they transition from both offense to defense.With Duran his footwork helped set up his shots...while Napoles was brilliant staying in range, then capitalizing on even the smallest openings.
     
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