Since SMW (168lb) was created.. Who beats Andre Ward

I think Toney would be able to beat Ward based on a couple factors.
1. Ward is at his best working the body from the clinch and on the inside. There are very few fighters I would ever favor over James Toney in that type of fight and though Ward is excellent on the inside Toney is probably better, and much more active to boot.
2. Ward's B game is one of distance management which relies heavily on the jab on the outside. Toney's head is almost never on the straight line of the jab and I'd rank him one of the hardest fighters to try and dominate or control with that punch.
3. The 168 lb version of Toney had BLISTERING hand speed and fluidity in combination. https://i.imgur.com/fzBMM9R.mp4
4. The guys that historically gave Toney problems were either tall (Nunn or Sam Peter) Physically gifted (Jones JR) or high volume guys who caught him on an off night which Toney was prone to having.(Tiberi, Thazdi)
5. Ward tends to duck his head at the first sign of a punch which leaves him open to the uppercut, a punch James loved to work into his combinations or even just as a counter to the jab https://i.imgur.com/tWml90U.mp4

I have written 2 articles on Andre Ward and 3 on James Toney. I think it would be a close fight. But Andre would lose an inside fight to James and he might be the only 168lber I could confidently say that about. Ward is forced into his jab heavy back foot B game. It would certainly be interesting but I would favor James in a 70-30 type of fight.

 

Roy Jones and Calzaghe have got to be favourite s here .,but he may give em their toughest fights at the weight .

 

lol.. No traditional Euro leveller is beating Ward. They all get the Kessler treatment.

A fight with Calzaghe would look like Floyd vs Pacman.. Ward had far too many dimensions for Joe.

Jones Jr would be the only guy you could pick with certainty.

 

I think Ward was a more versatile fighter than your description suggests. More so than maybe any other fighter in the past 30 years (or longer?) Ward really could switch up his style according to the demands of a particular fight, to offset his opponents' strengths and exploit their weaknesses.* I don't think his outboxing was a mere "plan b," but rather something he did almost just as well as his infighting. Even if he couldn't find Toney with his jab, he could still work off it as a range-finder to set up right leads and as a distraction to limit Toney's offense. I could see Ward outboxing Toney ala Reggie Johnson while occasionally roughing him up on the inside and catching an unsuspecting Toney with enough ambush punches to score points and win rounds. I think it would be a very even matchup on paper.


*That was my main take away from watching a bunch of Ward fights last year when I threw together a rough video on him (pardon the sloppy editing but I got mad at myself for spending so much time on it and just published as is):

This content is protected

 

Roy would make it look easy, like with reggie johnson and toney. His feet are too fast, ward tries to jab n grab and hits air, gets countered with a right. If he tries to duck his head and rush in he takes an uppercut for his trouble.
Lead hook? Forget about it.
Jones at 168 was also a much more dangerous puncher than anyone ward faced at 168. Hard Punches in rapid succession from any and all angles that are almost impossible to see coming. Roys boxing IQ(which is enhanced by his superhuman reflexes and natural creativity) is also badly underestimated because of his lack of traditional fundamentals.

Only around 2001 at LHW once roys legs slowed down enough that he moved less and became easier to engage up close or pin against the ropes does wards inside game even factor into the equation.


Calzaghe because of his workrate and creativity would also be a a solid favorite(but less so than Jones because he didnt have the power to keep ward scared from getting too close) but Wards lack of a right hand and calzaghes workrate makes me pick joe. Even if ward defends himself well and doesnt get hit much calzaghe scores points with his light punches even if the judges cant reallykeep track if and how clean they land(as in the hopkins fight)

Toney would be a near 50/50 fight. Toney would be a slight favorite because he is more 2 handed.

 

1. Kessler wasn't faded. He destroyed Titlist Brian Magoo 3 years later as well as beating Froch (best win of his career) after the Ward loss..

2. He wasn't inactive. He fought 3 months earlier against Gusmyr Perdomo , stopping him in 4 round.

3. Kessler didn't win a single minute of any round before a minimal accidental clash of heads occurred in the 8th. The 10th round had what could be argued as a headbutt , but thats 8 rounds with NO headbutts where Kessler didn't win a single minute of.
He was completely tooled , dismantled and deconstructed by a green Ward. Prime Kessler wasn't remotely competitive.

Hopkins was 43 and couldn't fight 3 mins a round any more , yet he was still competitive and arguably deserved to win by landing the better more accurate shots. .
If anything , that fight only proves how Ward could dominate Calzaghe since he was far more athletic and had a much better workrate than that old version of Hop.
Ward has the potential to make the fight look easy because you can't come at a guy as skilled as Ward like this.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/757396/hopkins-downs-calzaghe-o.gif

http://i.makeagif.com/media/11-03-2015/ZCmkdE.gif

You can't try to outwork a guy who has superior movement and superior defense , you have to bring another dimension and Calzaghe didn't have one.

Abraham was in /or around his prime. He picked up a belt 3 years later. Winning 3 rounds out of 12 means he lost badly , which he did, it wasn't a close fight. That doesn't say anything about other Euro levellers chances

Colins was worse than Froch. You saw Ward dominate Froch. Ottke would never have fought Ward. Ward victim Barrera would defeat Ottka

Eubanks was too stiff and slow legged to compete with Ward.

 

Calzaghe, Jones, Toney. I would give Collins a shot due to his toughness and intelligence

 

D, Hopkins is a good choice but I dont believe he ever campaigned in that division.

 

RJJ, Calzaghe but neither are a lock Ward is a special fighter and incredibly tough and smart

 

There was only two head clashes in the whole fight - a minor one in the 8th and a heavy one in the 10th. By the 10th round Kessler was already a broken and defeated man.
The cut you speak of mid fight was minor and was caused by punching. In case you didn't know , a strike on the face can cause cuts.
So once again - two head clashes late on don't determine the result of a 11 round fight.

Wrong. Ward measured Kessler , drew out his 1-2 , then pounced forward and beat the chit out of him in every exchange. He didn't lose a round of that fight and battered Kessler far worse than Calzaghe did.

Kessler was only 30 and had way more professional fight experience than Ward , plus was the favorite going in.
He only became past peak because of how Ward made him look. Nothing happened to Kessler between the age 28 to 30 that caused him to be past prime. Both Froch and Calzaghe were better fighters in their early/mid 30's then they were when they were 28-30.
You can take any version of Kessler you want and pit him against Ward , the result would be the exact same.

As it would be for the rest of the one dimensional euro levellers of that era - Bayer , Markussen , Larsen ets.

Ward can move , attack and defend for 3 mins of every round , thats boxing for 3mins a round. Hopinks couldn't do that at 40 , let alone 43.
Power isn't an issue , Calzaghe isn't bringing power to the table either. Cal couldn't drop Roy with over a 1000 punches. 4 years earlier Roy was knocked clean out by John and Tarver.
As for clinch , Ward had immense physical strength. He rag dolled tough man Froch and would do the same to Cal.

 

I've always thought Ward/Calzaghe would very similar to Hopkins/Calzaghe and that Calzaghe would take it on points because his superior workrate and punch output. I have never thought it would be an easy fight or that the win would be clear cut, and I'm certain there would have been a case for either man deserving the victory, but Calzaghe being the busier fighter tends to give him the edge for close fought contests.

 

Hopkins has never fought at Super Middleweight.

 

Throwing a name out there, do you think Thulani Malinga could give Ward some difficulty? Not beat him but, you know, give him some issues.

 

I think someone who can bully ward in the clinches, up close has a great chance of winning. Chris Eubank Jr makes sense to me. He isn't the greatest boxer, so he'd struggle to win on points. But if he has the strength to rough ward up with the pressure and the combinations, I think he can do it. Eubank Jr's stamina is second to none, so I think he can maintain the pressure on ward for the whole 12 round distance. Of course, if ward manages to keep his distance he wins easy on points. But if eubank jr stays close to ward, he can win by tko. It'd be tough cause ward is a tough guy himself with a great chin, but eubank jr can do it I believe.