Since The Mighty Usyk Has Turned Heavyweight

He is better than Johnson, Louis, Foreman. That doesn't mean they can't compete. I'm confident Foreman and maybe Louis can

 

He is more skilled than Louis in every department apart from combination punching and parrying, maybe jab ? Usyk has a more creative lead hand. I'm not saying Louis can't compete he was a beast, and with peds he'd look like Ibeabuchi

 

Sure but presumably a younger more prime Beterbiev could fight at a higher pace. You are comparing Marciano at 31/32 with Beterbiev at 39/40.

 

Morvidus just posted some great points that everyone ignored:-
"Firstly, the idea these old fighters are anywhere near Usyk is laughable.
Also, Usyk is bigger than most of the old nostalgia heroes anyway.

But some people clearly have no concept of what the argument even means. The whole point isn't that smaller fighters can't beat SHW's, it's that it is unlikely they can dominate HW like they once could.
Usyk is an EXCEPTION TO THE RULE.

SHW's have been dominating for decades now. That proves the argument pretty easily.
If you need more evidence, check out fighters like Povetkin, Haye, Chagaev, Byrd, Cunningham, Adamek and so on. These are all skilled small HW's around the size of the biggest old HW's in many cases, who simply couldn't overcome the best athletic modern SHW's, they hit a wall. The pattern just repeats over and over.
The case has been closed a long time ago. There's so much evidence it's ridiculous."

 

Can you cite a fight where he threw 116 punches in a round?

96?

 

We saw Adamek give it a try. Wouldn't mind Bivol giving it a try but think he's too small and probably out-skilled

 

Have to admit, I've noticed that I haven't heard the "a good big man always beats a good little man" cliche in a while.

 

On another thread, 'Cross Trainer' just made the best post I have yet seen on this topic-

"These old vs modern debates usually end up missing subtleties.
Modern fighters being bigger and better on average doesn't mean that the older guys have no chance. It doesn't mean that smaller fighters today automatically lose, or even that an Ali-sized fighter couldn't compete today. (One of them clearly can.) It also doesn't stop styles from making fights.

People often talk about how close Jesse Owens would be to modern sprint times if we equalized equipment. They cite the guy who says he'd be within a stride or so of more modern Olympians. Could be. But that stride is the difference between medaling and not. IIRC, that analysis would usually put Owens as a Olympic level sprinter today, but not an absolute top guy. Compare that to Owens in his own day, when IIRC he ran well, well ahead of his competitors. That's what progress really looks like. The strongest, fastest, best athletes of the past would still be pretty good athletes. Hermann Goerner wouldn't suddenly turn into a scrawny wimp just because Eddie Hall is stronger. Jesse Owens doesn't suddenly become slow if he arrives in 2025. But the best today would have advantages over the best of 50-100 years ago."

 

Its over

 

Usyk is 6'2

 

Coincidentally, I was thinking of that axiom also.

The thing is, given how P4P attributes trend toward being higher the smaller the fighter and lower the bigger the fighter, by nature, we often do get a better smaller man vs a good bigger man.

As such it then becomes a case of which exceeds the other - the size advantage over the skill advantage or visa versa.

I think there maybe a point in greater size where the ratio for skill/size becomes so fractional that it really begins to work against the oversized fighter - the smaller fighters skill advantage well exceeding the larger fighters size advantage.

Something to consider - Usyk is at a stretch in terms of his current size, reached and pointedly achieved at a later age - arguably, he was a greater P4P fighter at CW (allowing for rehydration/weight gain) - which from the available data - saw him at about 214 lbs max. ? in the ring.

If he was fighting in the 70s, I don’t think 6’2” Olek would’ve necessarily pushed to come in at his current highest weight - which was about 223 1/2 lbs, I think - I know he was about 226 lbs for the last Fury fight but both men were clothed.

At any rate, the stretched weight has been clearly intended to offset some of the marked weight discrepancies he has faced since fighting in the HW division.

While still holding a distinct skill advantage over the larger fighters, a larger Usyk has lost a little bit himself in both absolute and P4P terms (as compared to his CW days).

 

I guess Weight classes don't matter then?

Lets get all the MWs fighting the CWs

Totally fair thing to do, since size does not matter ??