Since Usyk has no plans to fight Kabayel, should he vacate the WBC title?

Agreed.

It's bad enough that really interesting fights that'd tell us more about him aren't getting made.

It's even worse when he's chased guys at ridiculously low levels instead.

Maybe - and like you, I'm not a fan if that's what it is... I'd like to see derankings for not fighting often enough or fighting guys that are obviously not worthy opponents (maybe a single pass for tuneups after a loss, otherwise no).

Yea, it's a problem with the sport - there's not enough punishment for sitting around going stale, and there's too much for guys who take difficult fights and both win/lose some.

The one thing that must be said for Dubois, though, is he'll take hard fights over and over again - yes, he's lost some, but he doesn't go into hiding or refuse to take other potentially difficult fights...

That warrior spirit is the opposite of hiding away - it deserves more respect than it gets, IMHO.

Even if it feels wrong that he gets the opportunities he does - he has the balls to take them.

 

He ducked Parker and got rewarded with a title shot he promptly lost via quitting. That removes a lot of the shine, especially given the relatively easy road he's had to title shots. All he's had to do is turn up.

 

It's not an entirely unfair point.

I think it's a bit unfair to call it an easy road though... At least not after his first Usyk loss - when he jumped straight into two gatekeepers (Miller and Hrgovic) and then into Joshua...
That's not an easy road back to the Usyk rematch - it's a significantly better run than Kabayel's best (Miller is clearly better than Makh, Hrgovic is a lot better than Sanchez and Joshua is a lot better than Zhang), and there's plenty screaming for Kabayel to get his shot.

Whether I'd call it a duck or not kinda depends on whether he backed away from Parker because the Usyk option was already there or not...

A few pages back I defined a duck, which sets up a simple check/test, albeit with lots of subjectivity involved:

Obviously Parker was a worthy opponent for Dubois.
Obviously Parker had a chance of winning, it was realistically a pretty even matchup.

The question is why it was avoided - if it was avoided because there was an opportunity to fight Usyk for more belts, more money and a chance to avenge a loss?
I find it difficult to call that a duck - it's taking a better option.

And on the cowardice point - skipping one not particularly huge puncher for a more skilful not particularly huge puncher who's already beaten you to the point of no-mas? That's not cowardly, I would contend?

 

Miller was a tune up and I wouldn't even consider him a gatekeeper. Realistically he hasn't really beaten anyone of note. Hrgovic has a worse resume than Kabayel does imo. AJ was a good scrap for sure, I can't take that away from him.

Arguable. I think Zhang beats Hrgovic (robbed against Hrgovic imo) and flatlines AJ with a counterhook. In any case, I don't think Kabayel is as deserving for a title shot as many here do, but he definitely deserves one more than Dubios.

It absolutely was a duck. He called in "sick" but was all of a sudden fine to face Usyk, who he'd have been locked in to fight anyway had he won? Regardless of why he may have done it, he deliberately avoided a fight because he wasn't confident he'd win.

Hard disagree. It's certainly not a tactic that should be rewarded, and he quit in the fight against Usyk anyway. Dubios has to be one of the biggest cowards in the HW division in terms of skipping opponents, winning with excessive fouls and quitting when things don't go his way.

Which irritates me because I think he can derail Wardley, much as I want for Wardley to kick his ass, and this will lead to a third Usyk fight.

 

If Wardley wins against Dubois, then Usyk should be allowed to fight for Undisputed AGAIN against Wardley in a massive fight in the capital as Undisputed TRUMPS mandatory.

Kabayel in that scenario can wait and fight another Polish builder.

However, if he does not fight him after fighting Wardley for Undisputed, then STRIP him...oh kinky.

 

Usyk obviously was not willing to face parker but wanted the undisputed fight .
Putting dubois vs parker infront of it would bring a big risk that dubois looses and osrker has the belt . Then usyk would be forced to face parker if he wanted the undisputed2 .

Usyk was very happy that dubois had a "sudden injury" and pulled out of the fight

Instead of setting a new date against parker dubois moved ahead and got the undisputed fight straight away ...

Usyk of course won , but when usyk was then forced to defend his wbo belt (against parker again) he also had a "sudden invisible injury" , which he cured by playing soccer .

After parker was willing to fight wardley to stay active and lost the fight , now wardley called usyk out ... and usyk dropped the wbo belt to not meet him...

Now he should defend the wbc belt against kabayel but ... he prefers to defend it against rico .

You need to look at the entire picture

 

With Usyk being older and on his way out, I don’t blame him for not taking on the most dangerous up and comers that post massive threats

He should vacate and let the new wave of fighters compete for the belts

 

He's a solid enough lump - not beating contenders, but enough to keep the journeymen out.

Ultimately, if Miller doesn't qualify then Sanchez doesn't really either - Miller has more depth at a similar level.

When comparing Makh and Miller though? Regardless of what levels you want to call it - it's obvious that Miller is the better win H2H.

(And call it a tune-up if you like, taking a tune-up against a relatively decent opponent isn't a sign of weakness?)

Yep... But Dubois beating Hrgovic is a better win than Kabayel beating Sanchez... Because Hrgovic is a solid top end gatekeeper and Sanchez is a lesser one, as their resumes bear out.

So Dubois' run through Miller and Hrgovic is currently 2-0 over Kabayel's through Makh and Sanchez...

I know it's not the intention, but you're strengthening my point - when the best win of Kabayel's run isn't that much better than the second best of Dubois'....

Possibly - it's hard to say just because Zhang is so inconsistent against decent opponents, as in literally a 50/50 thing.

Prime for prime it's a no-brainer to pick AJ, but we're talking about H2H as they were at that point... It's hard to say - both still have massive power, Zhang has a terrible gas tank and is easy to outpoint whilst Joshua isn't as durable as he once was... There are ways to beat both.

Even if you call that a draw - Dubois' run from Usyk 1 to Usyk 2 is a stronger run and was more deserving of the rematch than Kabayel currently is...

Kabayel is only more interesting because he hasn't already had a chance and pissed it up the wall by fouling and then quitting... Then again, Dubois didn't throw in a fight against someone terrible to keep busy after Joshua, either.


I'm not necessarily saying Dubois had had long enough between those bouts or that I wouldn't have preferred to see something different...
But for a 3-fight run as the only thing that warrants a title fight? Dubois had a significantly better run than Kabayel.

You could be right...

Or it could be that the Usyk fight was a "now or never" deal and he had to either take it or pass and hope they'd give him another chance later... We just don't know that.

As I said, Parker-Dubois was a pretty even matchup - it could've gone either way and not too many people would've been surprised.

I'm not going to excuse any of that - he quits, he's dirty... But skipping a great opponent for ab elite one isn't a coward's move.

 

But what you're saying is that Usyk's team had that motivation to prevent Dubois-Parker... And if true, it makes it not-a-duck.

None of us knows either way, it's all speculation - but it does seem entirely possible that Usyk wanted Dubois when it suited his schedule (regardless of whether Parker was any influence on that decision or not!).

And, whilst unchivalrous... That's what almost anyone would do - chase the money, chase the belts - other than cowards, ducks and those with an almost paralysing sense of honour.

A bit of a separate case, but it was good to see Parker not trying to sit around on position... He'll be back, I'm sure, and hopefully will fight to his strengths again.

Usyk winding down his career isn't taking the biggest challenges anymore, it seems - on the one hand that's a shame, but at the same time the remaining guys would only pad his resume at the weight a good way below his top two opponents.

The entire picture is clearly that he's on the way out - I'd rather we see him fight at all rather than quit instead... If phasing himself out is how that goes, fine.


As far as belts go... Whilst traditionally honour would say you defend or drop...

Not gonna lie, guys below playing games to maintain position and then whining that Usyk's playing games to keep the belts get no sympathy from me.
Usyk treating Rico as a defence isn't really that much worse than Kabayel treating Knyba as a defence of his interim - both are completely outmatched opponents... If Kabayel wants my sympathy, he should fight someone decent.

 

Thats not the mark of a Champion though,the thing is though when Usyk came along he wasn’t about the money it was for glory and to win every Belt/Title he could and in the process show the rest of the fighters up and that we as fans were sick of there antics. I had no problem with Usyk fighting once a year until he fledged into a full blown Heavyweight but he can’t do this now as the clear Champion with all the accolades.I’m a Fury fan but when Usyk beat him I jumped straight on board and thought here we go,Usyk has all the Belts/Titles now,he has a few more fights left and he will clear all the contenders/mandatory’s out and cement his greatness that way to make up for his lack of fights at Heavyweight. Now for whatever reasons, Parker avoided , Wardley avoided , Kabayel avoided,had this been Fury doing this which he probably would have had he beaten Usyk he would have been destroyed on here ! There is pages and pages on here slating Fury for delaying Undisputed and the Ngannou fight but Usyk holding all the Belts/Titles bar one and clearly the no1 in the Division and he is fighting a kick boxer next ! I’m an Usyk fan but no other fighter would get away with these antics and most of us would agree with this imo .

 

Ha, if you see it that way you are right ! Its a good question what we define as "a duck" and maybe we can discuss this in a separate thread .
I like said strongly assume usyk wanted dubois only for undisputed2 because he knows him since he already fought him , he is predictible for usyk and maybe also cooperating on usyk,s terms . I assume team usyk promised dubois a lucrative undisputed fight but of course only when he can bring a belt to the table . When he looses against parker the promise is obsolete so better declare an injury and pull out instead of risking the parker fight .

I agree also here but he will not do it and he is at least honest . in german :

This content is protected

He says " when i make a stay active fight and get an unlucky cut where the ref stops the fight then i loose my lifetime career for nothing . I want to fight usyk .

Nobody wants to "do the parker" while usyks sits on the belts . Its parker and wardley who are getting my deepest respect . Parker was willing to fight and wardley is willing to fight regardless of usyk

 

call it whatever you want, I think when you’re undisputed and undefeated and in your late 30s, you don’t owe any of these young fighters anything.

 

Completely different situations between Fury and Usyk. Anyone with knowledge of the sport and the division should be able to easily see that.

Fury was the money man of the division next to AJ. Has one of the biggest promoters in the game. Get all the media air time he wants. Any fight he wants to make happen he can make happen and he'll get paid an absurd amount of money for it. Instead of fighting the other guy in the division who had 3 of the belts to give us the first Undisputed HW champ in 25 years, he fought his buddy Delboy for a 3rd time and then fought a boxing novice MMA guy. He kept Usyk on hold for two years. That's why he rightly got slated for what he was doing.

Usyk's situation is nothing like that. He's the man of the division, but he's a Ukrainian who doesn't speak English as a 1st language. He doesn't have a big time promoter backing him, he's independent. He's been smashing the best guys in the division since 2021. He fought three times inside 14 months all against the best guy available. And there is no truly worthy challenger waiting in the wings. It's a white collar fighter who has squeaked his way to a couple of wins over semi-reputable opponents and a Turkish fella who nobody has ever heard of before whose resume is also rather meh. There's no Undisputed on the line. There's no big time unification waiting. It's just a couple of randos who won't sell to the broader public. Throw in the spat between Turki and Frank Warren and it's no surprise it's difficult to get a fight made.

Honestly, this just goes to show that boxers should do w/e the hell they want and to not give a **** about the fans. Usyk has had a literal unprecedented career. European Amateur Gold. World Amateur Gold. Olympic Gold. Cruiserweight Undisputed. HW Undisputed. WON EVERY SINGLE TITLE ON THE ROAD WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN DONE IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT. Oftentimes in the opponent's backyard. Never been knocked down as a pro despite being a smaller man giving up crazy weight and height advantages. Could have taken the easy road after becoming Unified champ, instead kept after Fury to make Undisputed happen for the first time in 25 years. Humble, never **** talked his opponents, and treated everyone with respect even when they didn't show him the same courtesy. But now that he's taking one easy voluntary fight he's a bum, a duck, and blah blah blah. With fans like ya'll, who the hell would ever want to be a boxer?

 

What a strange reply ! Show me were I posted calling Usyk a duck,bum or blah blah blah ! I think you will find I posted Im a fan of Usyk ! You just slated Fury who held one belt at the time for fighting an mma novice as you put it but it’s ok for Usyk with every Belt/Title bar one to do it ! Kabayel is a Turkish fella nobody has heard of you say,Wardley is a white collar fighter who has squeeked his way to a couple of wins over semi reputable opponents you say. Both Kabayel and Wardley have had more Heavyweight fights than Usyk.There is no big Unification waiting you say,that’s because Usyk holds all the belts bar the one and he vacated that ! Kabayel sits as mandatory after his win over Zhang over a year ago in a WBC title eliminator,Wardley sits as Champion after beating Parker the WBO mandatory. You said Usyk could have took the easy road,is that not what he is doing fighting a kick boxer in a cross over fight when there has been 3 mandatory’s he could have fought in Parker Kabayel Wardley ? 3 fights in 14 months you say 2 of those being rematches over fighters he had comfortably beat. I’m a fan of Usyk like I mentioned but this is not right,Usyk cleaned the division out but now does himself no favours after being a ray of light when he moved up to Heavyweight. Tbh reading your post again I’m not sure why I have took the time to respond to somebody who just sees Kabayel and Wardley as a couple of randos when both have clearly earned there positions ! Check out the poll numbers they don’t lie,Usyk is the face of the Heavyweight Division yet fans are not happy with this kick boxer fight,holding the Division up with nobody knowing who,when or even if he plans to step in the Boxing ring again and face a boxer !