Sit Down Earnie Shavers ... Deontay Wilder is the best puncher the division has ever produced

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Dubblechin, Nov 23, 2019.


  1. timeout

    timeout Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Aged as good as $5 crack hoe
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
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  2. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Obviously I wasn’t talking literally. I was just trying to prove a point to him. But IMHO, his knockout percentage wouldn’t be as high as it currently is. Not if he’d have fought Frazier x 2, Ali, and then Holyfield in his 40’s etc.

    This guy is trying to debate on stats alone.

    None of us can prove who it is.

    Knockout percentages are flawed pieces of data.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
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  3. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Foreman took a 10 year career break and fought well into his 40's, so it's impossible to compare on that front. Foreman and Wilder seem to have had similar amounts of boxing experience before they turned pro but Foreman turned pro at 20.5 to Wilder's 23.

    Prior to Frazier 1, Foreman was unable to stop 3 opponents in 37 fights but they were 200 lbs men and 2 had clear chin issues. Wilder stopped every one of his 32 opponents prior to 240 lbs WBC champion Stiverne (who Wilder dropped) and then everyone again prior to Fury in his 41st fight. Wilder KO'd much heavier opponents than Foreman (25 of Foreman's 34 KO victims were sub-215 lbs, only 4 of Wilder's 32 victims were) and Wilder KO'd them faster: not one of Wilder's 32 opponents pre-Stiverne went more than 4 rounds, while 6 of Foreman's 37 opponents pre-Frazier did. 21 of Wilder's 32 had more wins than losses, 19 of Foreman's 37 did. Wilder had 18 1st round KO's, Foreman 10.

    This isn't the be all and end all ofc, much more analysis could be done and there are many other factors to consider.
     
  4. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It's about creating opportunities and capitalizing.

    It's not easy to stop everyone you fight. You have to create opportunities to punch and then land a KO shot.

    That's what makes a great puncher. That's what makes Wilder the best.

    You can point to all the great punchers at the top in heavyweight history, and they all had some no-name journeyman they couldn't stop --- EXCEPT WILDER.

    You can't simply discount that. You can't. For every guy you can name as the best puncher ever, that guy has some nobody or some journeyman who others stopped but they either couldn't stop or, in many cases, the big puncher actually lost to them.

    EXCEPT WILDER.

    The only guy Wilder didn't stop in his career is the 6'8" 280 pound World Heavyweight Champ. And Wilder flattened him FOUR TIMES.

    WHY didn't Wilder knock out the best fighter in all of boxing (who is also the largest 'WORLD/Lineal' heavyweight champion in boxing history who outweighed Wilder by 40 pounds every time they fought), YOU asked?

    Well, with a different referee, he's got a KO over Fury in round 12 of fight one.

    Fury himself admitted he was out on the way down. But to Fury's credit, and the referee who decided (unlike many) to keep counting and not just wave it off with Fury flat on his back, the fight went on.

    Hell, we've seen fights stopped quicker. Mike Tyson stopped Ruddock with Ruddock on his feet with the referee Richard Steele not even looking to see if Razor was okay.

    Fury got up. Fury has always gotten up. We'll see how their careers shake out, but maybe no single fighter drops Fury four times ever again. Maybe the draw is the closest Fury ever comes to losing.

    We'll see. Their careers aren't over yet. It's going to be tough to keep Fury down, given we saw the concussive wave go through his body last time out, and he still got up.

    But if the ONLY guy who Wilder doesn't stop is the WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION who outweighed Wilder by 40 pounds and Wilder still dropped him four times ... that does NOTHING to take away from Wilder's power.

    In his prime, Shavers couldn't drop or knock out Bob Stallings, who Shavers outweighed, who had a losing record, who in turn DROPPED SHAVERS, and who BEAT EARNIE.

    You mentioned Morrison. Tommy Morrison couldn't knock out Aaron Brown (who was stopped 20 times), Ken Lakusta (who was stopped 17 times), Steve Zouski, Lorenzo Canady, Ross Puritty (Ross was ROBBED), Sherman Griffin, Michael Bentt ... and none of them were ever remotely considered the best heavyweight on the planet.

    And people have the freaking stones to say "Why didn't Wilder knock out the WORLD CHAMP FURY? (Like Fury's been knocked out 20 times!)

    Well, if Richard Steele was the ref, Wilder would've probably gotten the stoppage over Fury in fight 1. But that's the way it goes. The fight was great as it was.

    Doesn't affect Wilder's reputation as a puncher, regardless. We saw Fury on the deck four times against him. Fury told the world how hard Wilder punched. Fury told the world he was out on the way down in fight one.

    If this is the guy Wilder does "not" get a KO against, outweighed by 40 pounds, who is the best on the planet, then so be it.

    Wilder is still the best/hardest puncher until proven otherwise. Stopped everyone he fought except Fury, despite not having outweighed an opponent in nearly 10 years.

    Compared to punchers like Foreman, who outweighed everyone he fought after 1971, Wilder giving up all that weight and still blasting everyone out but Fury is an amazing stat.

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    Last edited: Dec 2, 2021
  5. NEETzschean

    NEETzschean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Wilder is unique as a puncher in that he's never failed to KO a non-world champion opponent: only Stiverne the first time and Fury survived (but Wilder scored 5 KD's in the process). He's also unique in that he's by far the most outweighed HW champion power puncher of all time (84% of his fights, 23 consecutive fights since 2012). Holyfield was similarly outweighed but his KO ratio (including all wins within the distance against sub-215 lbs opponents to be generous) at HW was only 38%.

    By contrast, Shavers outweighed 2/3 of his opponents. Many on these forums claim that Wilder is less skilled than Shavers but at the same time claim that Shavers couldn't set up his punches against Stander, Stallings etc. because Shavers lacked skill/courage/athleticism etc.

    Were Ron Stander and Bob Stallings freak athletes or defensive wizards with iron chins? Because if they were not and Shavers is more skilled than Wilder, then Wilder must either be a far bigger puncher, an incredible freak athlete or both to have done the things he has in his championship run against far better and much heavier opponents than many of the clowns that Shavers couldn't KO.

    Wilder had more success as a puncher against Fury than any other opponent in Fury's 29 other fights, including ATG puncher Wlad. Seeing as none of these historical punchers ever fought a champion as big and good as Fury, it's absurd to hold it against Wilder when he's done much better than anyone else.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
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  6. ikrasevic

    ikrasevic Who is ready to suffer for Christ (the truth)? Full Member

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    Deontay Wilder knock down every oponent. E v e r y!
     
  7. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Wilder is the greatest in picking a soft spot for a nap. Ask Tyson Fury ;)