Sixteen years ago last Friday: Nikolai Sergeevich Valuev vs. Lawrence Ali Donald

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Oct 5, 2021.


  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Fifth defense of the WBA intercontinental heavyweight title by Valuev (the belt's fifth holder; with the impressive previous lineage consisting of Michael Dokes, Donovan Ruddock, and both Klitschko brothers) on top of being an eliminator for the right to face then world champ John Ruiz.

    I actually think both of these competitors, but more so The Beast from The East aka The Russian Giant aka SNV aka Sugar - have gotten bad wraps and become, dare I say, criminally underrated... both contemporarily and in the intervening years since they were active. Neither was an elite ATG or anything close to it, but in h2h ability they were solid, and in Valuev's case a legit world titlist, but they've been relegated to the domain of jokes, memes, and footnotes in other fighters' history.

    Valuev's entire 53 bout career is often encapsulated with an unpopular decision over Evander Holyfield and his MD losses to David Haye and Ruslan Chagaev. In other words, he's remember for three bouts against significantly smaller men where public perception is that he ought to be 0-3...and beyond that, he's an oddity, a punchline, a guy that happened to wear a belt just by dint of being the right size in the right place at the right time but who doesn't rate mention otherwise unless it's ironic tongue-in-cheek hipster fandom of the same sort reserved for bizarro cases like Ali Raymi where you're not even sure his matches weren't 100% fixed (and very poorly choreographed to boot).

    Donald, meanwhile, is regarded as just a middling scalp on the ledgers of division luminaries of the era such as Povetkin, Vitali Klitschko, Kirk Johnson, and Valuev himself...and in the decade and epoch before that, Riddick Bowe. That his own UD over Holyfield, four years before Valuev, is not only considered uncontroversial but was in fact a wide and dominant victory, doesn't seem to improve his standing much with the average fan. Nor does his further array of victories over decent names that were somewhat "past it" when they crossed his path: José Ribalta, Bert Cooper, Tyrell Biggs, and Tim Witherspoon. Quite a drop-off from how respected he was coming out of the amateurs and up until the Bowe fight. In that period, early to mid nineties, he was never a threat to steal the spotlight from the Big 4 (Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield and Bowe) but he was expected to carve out a niche for himself and have a more memorable run than he did. He was aiming for becoming the second coming of his idol (and partial namesake) Muhammad Ali, but more realistically pundits of the day would have put his ceiling at "the new Larry Holmes" (himself the true closest thing to Ali).

    They both had skills though, in particular a pair of educated left jabs - and while they were both unquestionably boring to watch, they merit respect for what they did accomplish in the ring. Both maxed out their abilities, Valuev obviously a bit ahead of Donald, and in retrospect they weren't just faces in the crowd filling out the roster and holding space; they were a bona fide contender and titlist, respectively.

    So with that in mind, to make self-flagellating amends for the disrespect shown to both on behalf of the collective boxing community, I'm now going to do something which on the surface may seem gratuitously masochistic. I'm going to watch and score the match between them from 2005, in full, on purpose. :sisi1
     
  2. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Nikolai Sergeevich Valuev vs. Lawrence Ali Donald, 12 rounds @ heavyweight
     
  3. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    I remember there being some disagreement on this, with opinions ranging from "Donald got shafted" to "it was an easy cruise for Valuev". So, let's see.
     
  4. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

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    Valuev missed nearly all his jabs v Donald and neither of them were throwing counter punches.
     
  5. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Round 1

    Valuev is reaching down with his jab and Donald is catching it on the palm of his right glove with slap-parries, then shooting his own jab up at Valuev's face but falling short. Donald actually having better success pushing off the rear foot and tagging Valuev on the brow with right hands while standing briefly tiptoe before resuming his circling at medium-long range, using silky upper body leans, melting from side to side to slip and sometimes duck underneath Valuev's jabs.

    10-9 Donald, pretty clearly the more consistently effective man
     
  6. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Interestingly that round is split down the middle on fan scorecard aggregator EOTR. Can't see the argument in favor of Valuev, tbh. :nusenuse:
     
  7. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Round 2

    Valuev is walking Donald across the ring, keeping a somewhat tighter guard with his wrists steepling closer together and fists bunched in front of his nose. Valuev is able to paw triple and sometimes even quadruple jabs lightly into the face of Donald, usually burning the first two as intentional misses just to get Donald a few steps on the backfoot and then grazing the bridge of his nose with a final jab or two, before plunging in with a right on the body. Donald seems to be temporarily in check from this adjustment, processing it while just adopting defensive maneuvers. Clubbing flurry by Valuev late in the round, mostly blocked, but puts punctation on, offensively anyway, a rather dominant comeback round.

    10-9 Valuev

    19-19
     
  8. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Everyone on EOTR had the 2nd for Valuev. :thumbsup:
     
  9. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Round 3

    Valuev is aggressive to start, jabbing alternately into the stomach and pectorals of Donald, then rolling his entire bulk inward behind a ponderous right hand. Donald is able to ease off and blunt the impact of most of these shots, and is countering with right hands that skim across the broad and coarsely furry chest of the Russian. Donald is standing in front of Valuev and using head movement to weave around the predictable trajectory of the not all that speedy jab, and slicing up with his own jab that mostly bounces off the right fist of Valuev and past his ear, but achieves its goal of keeping that right hand sheathed. Donald crunches Valuev on the beak with a heck of a pull-counter right that gets a begrudging grunt of respect from pro-Valuev crowd and commentator alike.

    10-9 Donald

    29-28 Donald
     
  10. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    I'm kind of already regretting this undertaking a little bit, a quarter-way in. :lol:

    It isn't as bad as I expected, actually, in fact it's a good deal more interesting, just...this is now my afternoon, handcuffed. And the bar was set extremely low, so even "much better than expected" is still...not great.
     
  11. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Round 4

    Valuev is roping his jab out at the head, not really snapping it for the most part, range-finders, tracking and making corrections for Donald's movements to his aim, very rarely connecting. Donald is playing keepaway, shuffling clockwise generally and stopping for a directional change to break Valuev's rhythm now and then. Donald sidling up close, scoring a reach-up jab, and then quickly trotting out while cricking his neck to either side to slip Valuev's chase-out jabs. Flush pull-counter right hand again by Donald.

    10-9 Donald

    39-37 Donald
     
  12. Surrix

    Surrix Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Valuev was actually enough skilled but slow.
    They even did not had gave him fast track: he was large and had fought in foreign countries before he had fight for just Russian title, not to talk here about Euro title. Looks that 19 fights before he get fight for Russia title.
    So it does looks like slow track.
    While he had competed in 12? countries during his pro career, including Australia, South Korea, Switzerland.

    Vs Holyfiled he was very slow but very large.
    Some Valuev fans had scored this fight for Holy and had noticed that Valuev was very slow, some as draw.
    Haye: he didn't had wobbled Valuev at all despite fans claims.
    While: Vaulev really did not had landed almost anything ( for 12 rounder ) on Haye and there LOL, 0 reason not to gave decision win here.
    Vs Holy maybe there was not easy to see, then he was a bit more mobile and so large.

    Valuev had some health problems and joints problems, had surgery and so on.
    He was 37 when had retired? Imagine if slow boxer is getting joints problems?


    I don't rate him as some GOAT while I think Vitali and Wlad in their best night had won vs Valuev via decision not else.
    He was very large, massive and so durable giant.
     
  13. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Round 5

    Jabs from both as they adopt their usual hunter & hunted dynamic. Valuev is knifing out backhanded jabs from his chest down into the body of Donald, many caught on the back of his forearm that is held crossed horizontally over his torso for defense. Valuev then committing with chopping rights on whatever part of Donald's thoracic cavity is exposed to him after walking him down & making him twist & shell up with jabs. Donald is jumping up off his toes with line drive combos but getting stuffed as Valuev keeps his gloves in the way and bats everything down, rumbling forward.

    10-9 Valuev, close, only real stuff that got through for either man was his body punches (and those only partially) and maybe a couple of jabs on the chin.

    48-47 Valuev
     
  14. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    5th was a go either way round, per the split in scorecards (and some fan comments) on EOTR.
     
  15. On The Money

    On The Money Dangerous Journeyman Full Member

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    Not a huge fan of Valuev but would have been a great Bond villain in the Jaws mould. One scary mofo.
     
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