Size and sports science vs Golden era

There's always been SHW fighters.

 

This is true but let's not forget the HW division has changed three times in the last 40 years or so, maybe it can be assessed again?

 

Why would we wanna reassess it?

The whole point of being HW champ is to be the best fighter on the planet.

Seems stupid saying "A is HW champ but he'd have no chance against B who is the SHW champ"

 

Why would you say that? If fighter A wants to beat fighter B then make the SHW division. It really is that simple, just like there's nothing stopping a LHW jumping up to HW nowadays.....

 

But we don't need a SHW champion.

The HW champion has always been the best fighter on the planet, he shouldn't have to move up a weight class to prove himself.

Let's we use 230 as a cut off point.

Willard, Carnera, Lewis, Wlad, Fury, Briggs, Rahman, Old Foreman, Bowe, maybe someone else I don't remember. They are the champions who've weighed above 230 in championship fights.

We've had numerous contenders who have weighed above 230 as well.

This is nothing new. It's just that now there's no sub 200 fighters in the HW division. That's because people prefer to fight men their own size, even if they have a chance of winning big fights in the division they then bulk up massively to level the playing field.

The reason we will never again see a 190 man knock out a 230 man is because the cw wouldn't come in that low, he would add muscle and bulk up.

A division this big is fitting of the name heavyweight and a man would be ill advised giving away 40-50 pounds in weight.

We don't need a new division, things are fine as they are. We just need stricter rules on clinching so that the big men have to improve their skill level.

 

Funny how you don't quote me hoping I won't come back to deconstruct your post

I'll tell you what is amateurish being unable to block a left hook EVER also getting outjabbed by ken norton is also very amateurish

Do you think Tyson Fury would just lie against the ropes and let someone pound him until he develops brain damage ?

No he definitely would not fight like that he has many more options

Do you think Fury would lose to people like norton, young or spinks?

No he would crush them easily

Fury is much better then Ali hell Tyson, Lewis and the k-bros beat Ali too boxing has moved on but due to nostalgia you are stuck in the past

Now please quote me and reply because I would love to destroy your arguement some more

If Tyson Fury looks amateurish then what did wlad look like that night ?

 

A name change. That's all it is.

CW could do with the prestige. SHW deserves its own identity.

 

No. It is an absolute logistical nightmare.

Does that then mean that Holy was HW champ whilst Tyson was SHW champ? ItI just doesn't sense.

 

Please don't insult the Stooges!!!

 

Of course not. The SHW division started on its own with The kilts, the increase to 200lb for the CW limit and 24 hour weigh ins. The official SHW division would officially begin at the beginning of the official name name change, starting from now.

Tyson is a linear HW it was not the SHW division in his time. Holyfield becomes a HW champ once he beats Douglas. The thing he won from Qawi would become the old CW titles that fizzled out with that name before it became the HW division. There is nothing complicated about it.

It makes more sense than Olympic heavyweight champs being CW and SHW amateurs being called HW once they turn pro.

We have two divisions in the pros with the wrong name.

 

Perry,

You think Jack Johnson was a skilled fighter, correct?

Then how come a relatively unskilled Willard was so much better on the outside? It's true, watch the films. You'll see " range fighting "

Height and reach, when there is a disparity of say 5" or more makes a big difference in boxing. And so does weight when the heavier guys are in shape.

If you must use examples to fighters you think are great, see Tommy Hearns and Bob Foster. Who at 147 or 175 could outbox either? Not even Sugar Ray Leonard, and he's extremely skilled. So you see " range fighting " is a tremendous asset when combined with skills and power....there just were very few or NO examples of old timers having this advantage, so you didn't see it from 1900-1950.

Range fighting, combined with the power and ability to deliver it is the evolution of the sport. However, you still need a skilled jab and good footwork, with a fundamental understanding of how to use it.

Fighters are getting taller. You even see it in the lower weights, as the champions today are in general taller than their predecessors decades ago. Back in the day, you had some great middles from 5'7 to 5'9" tall. those days appear to be gone. You don't see any short light heavies either. So height and reach clearly matter.

In the heavyweight division, the disparity between the two is the greatest.

 

if you asked someone on the street what weight guys like aj won their olympic medals at most will answer hw.

 

I agree with this. There are some instances in which I'll pick a fighter from a latter period to beat a specific one from a previous time frame and at other times vice versa. Entire eras shouldn't be generalized when compared to one another.

 

I would argue the " super heavyweights " with skills started with Bowe in the professionals, and with Teófilo Stevenson and Felix Savon in the amateurs. Guys around 6'5" tall or greater with skills, a top jab, and a lot of power. They cleaned house.

Since then super heavies with skills have pretty much been the top dog in the pro ranks from 1990-2016. There are a few years where they were not, but outboxing them in their primes was a rarity. From 1990-2015 a 25 year period, Bowe, Lewis, Wlad and Vitali had over 250+ ( too lazy to count right now ) fights and only lost once via decision. If that doesn't tell you something, I don't know what will.

These days the top pro and amateurs are most often super heavies. It's hard to beat these larger boxer-puncher types.

Back in the day Marciano and Fraizer had the style and skills to do it....BUT they never fought a big man who really hit hard, and gave up so many pounds and inches. They never win a jabbing contest, they need to get past the much longer jab, have the chin to eat shots, and somehow go to work without being clinched to win.

Regarding Holyfield, he's 1-4 on fair cards vs Lewis and Bowe, and bulked up with PED allegations, or was their proof?

 

Vaguely recall Seamus and a couple other folks tearing this video to shreds the last time you posted it.