Size Importance

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by andrewa1, Oct 7, 2015.


Page 1 of 6
  1. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

    7,005
    2,071
    Apr 8, 2013
    I'm real interested in seeing the spectrum of views on size. Some have intelligent comments, but it seems like a lot want to have their cake and eat it too on size in boxing. You hear huge criticism for HW contenders facing smaller guys than them ("he's a blown up cruiserweight"), or for lower weight division guys not having the "guts" to move up in weight to face the best of the weight division. By the same token, many of the same guys argue that Roman Gonzalez (5'3 112 lbs) could beat "99%" of HW's(someone actually said and meant that on one thread) or that the smaller (would be criticized as "blown up cruiserweights" if they fought today) HW champs of yesteryear could handily beat the vastly taller and or heavier champs of the last 30 years.

    Count me among those that say weight, and to a lesser extent height, is extremely important in all combat sports. There's a reason they are all organized into weight divisions. There's also a reason the cruiserweight division was born, to cope with the expanding size of HW's. I've seen one website compile a very detailed chart outlining the inescapable importance of weight in HW boxing in h2h matchup's based on weight. That said, I'd like real votes and answers, so I'm trying to be respectful in my "category keys" below

    For the "key" on what each category means, if you vote option 1, I'd say you're at least recognizing Ali is going to have a real hard time being champ in this era, if not ruling out the possibility entirely. And that, if he fights at 112 lbs and they fight at their normal weight, Chocolito is probably losing to almost any top 100 boxer in the super middleweight division or higher. Option 2, Basically, you can agree with one statement above, but can't bring yourself to the other. Option 3 You think it matters but isn't that important, ie, maybe someone like 6'0 195 Eddie Machen, a top 5 contender at his peak in the 50's, couldn't cut it as a contender in today's HW division, or most lower weight division dwellers would lose to people a division or two higher at the same level, but the true greats like Ali or Gonzalez transcend size and can beat the modern superhw champs or beat all but the very best fighters of higher weight classes, respectively. Or Option 4. Weight doesn't really matter, Chocolito would have a great chance against Wlad, at least at a catch weight, and could beat Wilder straight up, and Machen would clean out the bums of the modern HW era.

    So vote for your opinion on the importance of size, but however you vote, try to be consistent with your opinions. If you really think the Floyd Patterson's of the world would even be a top 10 contender in today's HW division, please don't rip on top HW's fighting guys who are likely significantly taller and heavier than Patterson (6'0, 190). If you really think GGG should fight Ward, apply the standard to Ward against Kovalev, Kovalev to Hernandez or Usyk etc.
     
    andrewa1, Oct 7, 2015
    andrewa1, Oct 7, 2015
    #1
  2. mirkofilipovic

    mirkofilipovic ESB Management Full Member

    28,390
    39,771
    Jan 7, 2014
    If guys like Kovalev, Usky, or any cruiserweight/Lightheavy weight today cannot defeat the larger top 5 heavyweights Today, then why can the so called "fighters of the past" who are around the same size and weight class as Usky, Kovalev etc be able to? Are you saying Usky or Kovalev are not skilled enough? Which is a load of baloney, they both are more skilled than half of the top ten heavies today. I guess only cruiserweight sized ancient legendary boxers can defeat the heavyweight division today :-(
     
    mirkofilipovic, Oct 7, 2015
    mirkofilipovic, Oct 7, 2015
    #2
  3. DrBanzai

    DrBanzai Active Member Full Member

    1,389
    22
    May 11, 2012
    Just like 120lb super models can not kick 230lb mens asses in action films ( even though the beta males love it) we real men all know weight divisions are brutally true.
     
    DrBanzai, Oct 7, 2015
    DrBanzai, Oct 7, 2015
    #3
  4. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

    7,005
    2,071
    Apr 8, 2013
    Uhm, you do know that I agree with you, right? I was trying to be fair in my descriptions, though, to invite some intelligent feedback.
     
    andrewa1, Oct 7, 2015
    andrewa1, Oct 7, 2015
    #4
  5. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    238,113
    228,524
    Nov 23, 2013
    **** you Andrew:fy
     
    CST80, Oct 7, 2015
    CST80, Oct 7, 2015
    #5
  6. mirkofilipovic

    mirkofilipovic ESB Management Full Member

    28,390
    39,771
    Jan 7, 2014
    I agree with your agreement, and agree with your statement agreeing with the things I agree with :good
     
    mirkofilipovic, Oct 7, 2015
    mirkofilipovic, Oct 7, 2015
    #6
  7. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

    7,005
    2,071
    Apr 8, 2013
    Lol. Fair enough, fixed my comment.
     
    andrewa1, Oct 7, 2015
    andrewa1, Oct 7, 2015
    #7
  8. CST80

    CST80 De Omnibus Dubitandum Staff Member

    238,113
    228,524
    Nov 23, 2013
    I was just messing with you,:yep I agree with what you said for the most part.
     
    CST80, Oct 7, 2015
    CST80, Oct 7, 2015
    #8
  9. latineg

    latineg user of dude wipes Full Member

    22,077
    16,718
    Jun 4, 2009
    this is the same point i have so often wondered about,,,,good job stating it so clearly :bbb
     
    latineg, Oct 7, 2015
    latineg, Oct 7, 2015
    #9
  10. Bald_Toad

    Bald_Toad Ring Title Full Member

    5,200
    5
    Aug 4, 2011
    A dwarf is no match for an alpha male like Klitschko or Kovalev.
     
    Bald_Toad, Oct 7, 2015
    Bald_Toad, Oct 7, 2015
    #10
  11. StraightRight

    StraightRight New Member Full Member

    16
    8
    Jun 12, 2015
    I think they are quite important, as a boxers range, height and power usually increases with weight, though the speed and agility seems to decrease. It's not exactly the same with all fighters, as we've seen quite a few be able to move up in weight (rather than move down in weight, which is rare.) Most of the fighters that have moved up have to prove they have the same power or speed in a higher weight class in order to compete at that level. Golovkin, Mayweather, and Paul Williams come to mind as a few that can move between a 2 or 3 weights without problem, but is not something many boxers do at the same time.
     
    StraightRight, Oct 7, 2015
    StraightRight, Oct 7, 2015
    #11
  12. Uppercut_Artist

    Uppercut_Artist Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    9,213
    860
    Sep 22, 2015
    To illustrate just how much a size advantage helps, simply look at Vlad Klitscho's career where for the most part a Super HW is competing with a string of HWs.

    This size differential isn't allowed in Amateur Olympic games where there is a clear separation between Super and standard HWs.
    This, of course is meant to eliminate huge size disparities and of course, the advantage that comes with it.
    Pro boxing has allowed this size difference in the HW division, and it is very realistic to state that the Klitscho's long reign as HW champions is mainly due to this bearly legal size advantage.
     
    Uppercut_Artist, Oct 7, 2015
    Uppercut_Artist, Oct 7, 2015
    #12
  13. uncletermite

    uncletermite Boxing Addict banned

    4,436
    44
    Aug 2, 2015
    Modern guys have grown signifacntly...lets not pretend a 6'4 guy belted Joe Louis out of the ring,this was a guy with limited ability/unrefined ones..even though he was k.od....Average guys of bigger size were 200 pounds at once even a 160 pound Hw champions in the Johnson era and louis .Im using the HW because size trickles down its divided up,and it should be. If size is not important leta a guy like GGG vchallenge any top 5 HW and see how that goes!



    biggest factor is money now,guys fight less because they are training more prepared...today ONE loss could mean end of a career unfortuantly...double standard in that aspect but we now have T.v/internet Etc..etc...fighters fight to be rich not to fail or fight and take chances ...point being no one is going to want to fight stronger fighters if not necessary....weight classes!
     
    uncletermite, Oct 7, 2015
    uncletermite, Oct 7, 2015
    #13
  14. don owens

    don owens Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,216
    5,377
    May 5, 2005
    Yeah.....I agree with that.
     
    don owens, Oct 7, 2015
    don owens, Oct 7, 2015
    #14
  15. abuffy

    abuffy Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,653
    12
    Jan 10, 2015
    They're important; however, it a fighter feels he can go up in classes and compete with the fighters there then I have nothing against that display of greatness. It's not a must though.

    Also, let's make it clear that you can't duck another fighter that's in a different weight class as many think on here. UNLESS of course the person in the lower weight class is reinging champion in a higher one. Then, you can say they're holding the belt hostage and ducking if they refuse to defend it against quality opponents. Only if a title is involved though.
     
    abuffy, Oct 7, 2015
    abuffy, Oct 7, 2015
    #15
Page 1 of 6