Size of HW's in the 60's/70's - How Big Would they be and HOW would they Fight?

The heavy division isn't made up of guys who are mostly 6'4 - 6'7. Those guys are present but they don't make up the majority. On top of that, almost ALL of the fighters are shorter than their listed heights. This is common in contemporary athletics.

What do you mean by "explosive"? Do bombs go off when a heavyweight lands their punches today? Are they faster and/or better punchers? The data says otherwise.

Why use today's standards when determining ALI's weight class? Why not standards from 120 years ago?

 

Foreman would have been around 240/250 and likely heavily muscled. I don't know if that benefits him much. Possibly, since he'd have even more strength to push and manhandle his opponents, but it might have badly affected his stamina, which was never great to begin with.

Lyle likely bulks up to about 230, maybe more. He'd probably occupy a similar spot to Brewster or Rahman at their best.

Shavers might have boiled down to CW. He was 210 at his peak, and had quite a bit of smoothness to him, so it would have made sense. If he moved up he would have likely become a stocky tank type guy like Cooper or Peter, and not necessarily any better off. Frazier would have even more incentive to move down.

Quarry would have fought in a different division.

 

Disagree with these conclusions.

These guys had to be light on their feet for champs like Patterson and Ali. Slow and ponderous heavies with mediocre footwork aren't catching mobile targets. Heavies needed the ability to hit a moving target and not have to set their feet to do anything---that is not a requirement in recent times, but it was mandatory then.

 

Not sure if Ali would be "better" as a rock solid muscular 230+ heavyweight. His footspeed was noticeably slower in the 70's even though he still weighed in as low as 220 and even 215. His catlike reflexes would also diminisg and he wouldnt be able to slip and counter with ease.

His stamina would also be worse obviously, especially if he knew he had to train for 12 rounds instead of 15 against big lumbering guys.

Hed be stronger in the clinch and would probably make adjustments againsr guys his own size/bigger by investing in the body more (Ali liked to tired his man out before going for the kill). Hed inevitably become a better inside fighter and have a little more pop in his punches but for the most part hed still operate behind a quick flicking jab using lateral movement and occasional bursts of speed, saving his energy for the later rounds.

Hed be a very different Ali and his decreased speed and stamina means that hed also be more vulnerable. Unless his increase in size and power enables him to get more guys out of there more frequently, youd see a lot more of the sluggish/mudfighting Ali of the Spinx, Wepner, & Shavers fights.

 

The amateurs all emphasize weight. Last thing to consider in the hwt division.

Ali from the 1960's at his best was a heavyweight not a cruiserweight.

 

They may or may or not be significantly heavier, but they most assuredly would not be significantly taller. (it's amazing how many people are so helplessly stupid and so scientifically illiterate that it never occurs to them to ask how two brothers growing up in Ukraine toward the end of the cold war are supposed to have benefited from "modern nutrition".)

It's as easy to pick apart the sophomoric claims those who claim there will never be another heavyweight champ under 6'5" as it was, as a teenager, to pick apart the arguments of acquaintances who insisted there would never be another "white" champion. Both show the same ignorance of sample size and sampling bias.

Although thankfully, I have yet to see anyone on this forum quite as dumb as a certain abuser of Dunning and Kruger gin who ran a certain "heavyweight blog" a few years back.
That would require a dedicated and assiduous regimen of controlled intentional brain damage, like a daily spooning litharge into one's coffee (or something).

 

Stick around...

 

"Stick around..."

Someone by the name of "Galvatron" is certainly a prospect.

 

If Cooney fought today he'd be 6'9 265lb with the power of Foreman, the accuracy of Louis, and the speed of Ali.

 

Wasn't prime Ali 210-212 lbs at 6'3. Then a young Mike Tyson whose best weight was 215-218 lbs would also be a cruiser. Or Evander Holyfield who was 205-215, he'd have been just a bigger cruiser than he was at 190.

 

Weight can make a difference, depending on the fighters in question.

I think say Lennox Lewis would be a hard opponent for even a 60s Ali and partly because of his size advantage, but not size alone. But when you mix up his skill, power AND size, Lewis becomes a problem.

Another example is Liston/Patterson. I'm convinced that Liston's size advantage is the reason he beat Patterson, because honestly Patterson was better skilled. And if Patterson was 15, 20, 25 pounds heavier with the same skills, attributes and relative power, I think he'd have soundly beaten Liston.

So it does matter......SOMETIME!!

I doubt that Trevor Berbick would beat Joe Louis just because he weighed more.

 

Prime Ali:

6''2

201 Pounds.

 

Prime Ali would be during the latter stages of his first reign. As per his trainer Dundee..."we never saw the best Ali". Thus Ali in the closest to prime anyone actually saw was a 212 pound hwt. But either 201 or 212 he beats any other hwt champion.

 

When did size ever really bother Ali? He destroyed a 6'6 Terrell, He knocked out for a ten count (as an old fighter) prime Foreman. Speed bothered Ali. Not size.