Smallest boxer you'd pick over Primo Carnera?

I think that you would have to favor Carnera to be honest.

Was Toney a better heavyweight contender than Tommy Loughran?

I don't personally think that he was.

I feel that Carneras resume against elite heavyweights is good enough to favor him over Toney, and that Toney's resume against elite heavyweights is not really good enough to favor him over Carnera.

 

How on God's Green Earth is Primo supposed to be favored over Toney? In what fantasy land does that occur? The reason why one might hesitate to pick a smaller fighter over Primo is because Primo could potentially end the fight via KO against a smaller man. He's not KOing Toney, so then I'm supposed to believe he outboxes Toney to win a decision? Nah, not happening.

 

Steve Reeves crushed Carnera in Hercules Unchained. TBH, Carnera was past his prime, but did he ever
really have a prime?

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I see Conn pulling it off, same with Cruiser Field

 

How on God's Green Earth is Primo supposed to be favored over Toney?

Let's start with the fact that Toney never convincingly beat a ranked contender, while Carnera beat a number of them.

Not looking good for Toney before we start the stylistic analysis.

While Toney was undoubtedly the better technician, he is up against a stylistic nightmare here.

Super heavyweigths are the kryptonite of short technically brilliant boxers.

The most likely outcome, is that Carnera would smother him, and beat him on points.

 

Toney was a better fighter than Loughran for me, I've no doubt about that. Carnera will struggle to land anything clean imo and will lose a wide UD

 

I could imagine somebody saying the same about Carnera vs Loughran, before the fight took place.

The reality is that height and reach negate skill, when you are dealing with a technical boxer.

I would have to ask why you think that Toney was better than Loughran?

Clearly not based on results.

It is also only fair to note, that Toney's results against heavyweights are downplayed, when they are cited as evidence that men like Loughran might do the same.

 

What is the stylistic nightmare here for Toney? I see nothing of the sort in this matchup. Toney is levelS about Primo in class and technical ability. You act as though Primo sets a blistering pace and boxes people's ears off, when he frankly does nothing of the sort. Fighters who press the pace and smother Toney can sometimes have success. That isn't how Primo fought. You can't simply imagine the best way for a fighter to fight, and then propose a premise where he fights that way; when fighting that way contradicts how someone actually fought. Primo likes to stay and range and try and use his length and "boxing ability" to win fights. You're fighting Toney that way, with his limited abilities, and winning. Do you actually believe Primo can win a fight against Toney simply boxing him? Come on man.

 

Maybe they did say it and obviously they'd have been wrong.

No they don't negate skill, they just add a different dimension to the fight.

Based on film, Toney looks superior to me. I'd argue his results are just as good as well.

Downplay his HW results all you want, they're a historical fact.

The only reason men like Loughran don't do the same any more is because fights like that are no longer sanctioned.

 

Are we talking about Toney's heavyweight resume without actually examining the nuances inside of it? His record at heavyweight would shine, especially for a blown up middleweight, if only we didn't live in a world where one can simply scan a resume and not know any of the particulars about any of the fights.

Toney should have an early stoppage win over legitimate super sized heavyweight and known banger Hasim Rahman, their bout originally actually was ruled a TKO3 win but was changed so unknown and bizarre reason. Validate that one for me.

Then there's 2 losses against another young heavyweight puncher extraordinaire, Samuel Peter. Really, there should only be one loss against the man for Toney as he clearly boxed and established his superiority in their first bout.

A clear points win, including a knock down, over established heavyweight contender and *gag* champion John Ruiz. I hold James Toney roughly to the same standards as I do Roy Jones and Evander Holyfield... so in so many words, I give him credit for the bout as opposed to pretending it didn't happen. It's certainly not a fight the Roy Jones fans are shy about celebrating.

 

As he was over Wladamir Klitschno, and every other super heavyweight that ever drew breath!

Yes, I do.

His reach and jab will negate Toney's boxing skill, and when Toney gets in close, he will just lean on him, and stamp on his feet.

You would be saying the same thing, if Carnera was a modern fighter, and Toney fought in the 30s.

 

GGG

 

As said previously, Toney looks better on film, than every single super heavyweight who ever drew breath!

That doesn't man that he beats them.

There is virtually nothing to downplay!

Your fist statement, is totally unarguable.

You might well be right there.

 

I would be saying no such thing. In case you've forgotten, Johnson is one of my favorite fighters, and I give him a lot more credit and potential against HOFers than many do around here. It has nothing to do with old, young, SHW vs. Non SHW, but everything to do with skill and talent. As you know, Walcott is another favorite of mine, hardly who'd I call a modern fighter. The gulf in class is wide, and frankly, makes this bout seem a bit unfair to Primo. Now he's leaning on Toney to victory... You do know he actually has to land punches on somebody vastly superior to him skill wise right?

 

People are having a conversation regarding Toney, but I wasn't invited. I guess my post wasn't good enough to gain entry?