Speaking with a friend earlier today about Joe Frazier and the everlasting damage done by Ali's verbals toward him in the 70's. Constant reminders are posted of fresh words and attitude Joe carries towards Ali to this day. Three incredible battles occured between them, with very, very little seperating them overall. Both guys genuinely complimented each others fortitude in the ring, both different technicians that worked so well together, creating doubtlessly the finest H/W trilogy. In conversation, my friend said that Joe Frazier would have been NOTHING without these fight.... suggesting Joe should grow up and be greatful that he boxed in the same era as Ali.. Sounded quite harsh to myself... With Ali taken out of the equation of Fraziers career, how would you see the outcome overall, without the 41 rounds against Ali that aged him after Manila?? Frazier would have met Foreman without a doubt.. How do you see Joe in the latter part of the 70's???
Without Ali, Frazier would have been seen as a good champion, but not much more. I think he would have been busier in 1971 and 1972 and have another couple of impressive perfomances, but then comes Foreman. Being mauled like that while still near his prime would always hold him back greatly if he didn't have a great victory like FOTC to make up for it. Hardly anyone who's not interested in boxing would know the name "Joe Frazier" today if not for Ali. And I think that riles Joe bad.
The Frazier of '67 to '70 would have been viewed as a lot more than just "good" by those whose opinion means something. He was a real force. I prefer to think, without Ali, that Joe cleans out the heavy division in '71 and '72, retires undefeated before ever meeting up with Foreman, and slowly over time becomes viewed as one of the greatest champions by the Joe Blow general public. p.s. I definitely agree with what I think is a minority viewpoint here that peak, hungry Frazier has a much better chance against Foreman than most assume, despite the bad style matchup. Prime Frazier was just that great.
Don't believe that he would have retired several years before 30. If he had that inclination he would have retired after FOTC in real life. Foreman always gets him at some point. Being dominated like Foreman would always dominate him makes it very hard to reach ATG status. In Frazier's case the trilogy against Ali bails him out. It may take a round longer perhaps, but I have a hard time seeing Joe take this. And I don't think the fight would have happened before 73 anyhow, when Frazier was somewhat past his peak.
They both helped each others legacies tremendously. However, Ali's resume is already superb so I believe it helps Joe a bit more.
Ali was a living legend before he even met Frazier (hated as he was by many). Frazier was a fighter that promised to be great, but still had to prove himself. Big difference.
I wonder if Joe would have fought any of the following: Norton Holmes Lyle Liston Shavers Those would have been some fights there.
