So basically Floyd and Pac's 154 belts are meaningless

Nobody uses that in reference to anything remotely positive in regards to Ray Leonard. It was a brutal ending, that's about it. Leonard is more renowned for his abilities and resume than anything he was champion of. He had two title defenses, yet wiped out around a dozen welterweight and junior middleweight contenders inside 30 months, some of them all-time great talents.

He's a three-division champ:

Benitez (38-0) @ 147, Kalule (36-0) at 154, Hagler (62-2) at 160. Also regained the welter crown against Duran (72-1) and unified Hearns (32-0) trinket + half dozen rated guys.

That's his career.

 

Pac's was, is and perhaps will always be (unless they create a 150lb division in the future).

FMJ's was legit. Only in hindsight does it look crappy.

 

Pac's good traits are also known for his fights with high quality oppositions in the lower weight classes. Not the one against Margarito.

If Leonard is just 3-div champ for you, Pac can also be just 5-6 div champ depending on which is acceptable. But if Leonard goes back to be referred as 5-div champ, Pac should then go back to be referred as 8.

 

Champions have more of a right to set terms for defenses than challengers, at least in terms of merit, especially unranked challengers only getting the fight via name value.

 

The market dictates who's got what right. I'm saying on principle, a champ requesting to defend at a catchweight is a lot worse and much more unusual than having the smaller guy ask for one when going up in weight. In common sense terms. Add in the sorry opponent, and it's as bad as it get.

 

I get what you mean....from your perspective Ray's a 3 division champ. However, in the history books Ray is considered a 5 division champ. Ray didn't cheat to beat Donny...he won fair and square, within the rules of boxing.

I agree Leonard was abilities and resume....His resume consists of more than just who he beat but also at what weight since he was a multi division champ and if they were for titles.

Ray had an amazing career and is considered a all time great based on what he was able to do within the sport.

 

Of course the market does, but on principle, the champ has a greater right for demanding a catchweight since it's his belt on the line IMO. The Margarito sucked and would have sucked regardless and doesn't enhance Cotto's resume in the slightest, but I nevertheless think catchweight demands are more legitimate/acceptable coming from the guy whose belt is actually on the line.

 

The proliferation of title belts has undoubtedly defaced the value and meaning of champion, at least to me. Lineage is the preferred way to go, but in order for it to have any merit, he has to be the best fighter in the division and prove it on a regular basis against the top contenders of that era. If he's of the weight jumping variety, at least take out the top guy and not a mere titlist who may well be only the fourth best (or worse) guy in a class. When I think of Champions, guys like Hagler, Monzon, Louis are who instantly come to mind. They were lineal champs who fulfilled the requirements. Sergio Martinez didn't need to win back the strap Chavez had, he's been the champ since he defeated Pavlik. It's all a bit tricky.. And increasingly watered down.

 

The little guy coming up is making no pretense of being the man at that weight. If he wins and sticks around, he can legitimize his CW belt. When a champ asks for a CW he is pretty much saying, I'm not worthy of this belt, all the more so if the opponent is a total bum.

 

Pac's SWW belt is bogus as hell, but most of these record setting belts are also tainted. DLH is the runner up with 6. His last belt was a straight robbery over the weakest beltholder, then attempt to unify belts at a CW.

Floyd's SWW belts are way more legit. But he hasn't established himself as a good champ at 154, ready for any challenger there.

 

Yea that's why no one cares about belts anymore. Whether you are a 3, 5 or 7 weight champion isn't that important anymore. It's all about who you beat.

 

SRL benefits from this today. He had the jump on this mentality even when champions and divisional dominance were still at a premium. Some people say he ruined the game, but I can't knock the hustle.

 

Take 3 division "champ" Soto, 4 div for Guerrero. Though RGs interim welter belt is better than his full titles at FW, SFW.

I think most fighters still care about them a lot, even trinkets. There's only a few guys that are "above" titles.

 

A lot of fighters consider their trinkets legit, yeah.

 

The belts have progressively lost its luster over the years as more and more titles have been introduced (Alphabet Soup)...Lineage is the best way to add meaning to a champions victory or title defenses....but unification is the only way to really increase what it means to be "champion" as it stands today in boxing.

Fighters who can move up in weight do so usually because they are a rare case where they are ultra talented, highly skilled or both. Which means they are men with a LOT more options than most. They'll make decisions that make sense for their personal goals as professional boxers....Since everyone is a different person it means their paths moving up in weight will vary.

You talk about guys like Louis, Hearns and Monzon who competed in the same sport years ago....when the sport wasn't saturated with 20 different organizations who have a world title boxers can fight for.....the word "CHAMPION" meant a LOT more becuase there was only ONE championship belt. It's a different time....I don't like it but I still love boxing and anyone who can compete at this level gets my respect because I've boxed....and I know how hard it is to compete at the armature level. I can only imagine what it would be like to compete at the level Cotto, Floyd or Manny are.