So basically Floyd and Pac's 154 belts are meaningless

Going by this logic most title holders are a farce.....Without unifying all major belts there's no "real" champion. Just a bunch of title holders wearing tarnished straps.

 

So you'd be all for these fights if no titles were at stake? Seems weird, given how cheap belts are these days. Of course the guy taking most of the risk will ask for something back, titles are usually at stake in cw fights. Do you think beating Jennings or Miki Rodriguez at 147 is a more legit way to earn a belt than Cotto at 145?

 

The guy taking more of the risk should stay in his own division if he regards it as an excessive amount, or should move up and fight without a belt on the line until the point that he's sufficiently comfortable at the class before he fights for a belt The Cotto win may be regarded as a better overall victory, but in terms of legitimacy, defeating another welter at the welter limit for a belt at that class is preferable.

 

These days titles aren't as important or as meaningful as they once were. I'm all about making the best fights....if some of these fights are between fighter from two different divisions and they want to agree to a middle ground in order for both sides to come to an agreement...so be it.

Titles are still worth something...just not as much. Who you beat means more than titles in boxing today vs how things were 30 or 40 years ago.

Without questions beating Cotto at 145 has more meaning than fighting a lower level guy like Jennings or Rodriquez at 147.

 

Then legitimacy isn't worth that much if it goes against common sense, because Cotto at 145 >>> Jennings/Miki at 147. But again, what counts is what the guy does next. He can defend against solid comp at full weight (Pac at WW), drop the belt and move back down -> belt bogus (Pac at SWW), or keep the belt and cherrypick around like Canelo. But other than Cotto, I don't know one champ that asked to defend at a CW, even against a tough foe.

 

Legitimacy is not the chief criterion and I never would pretend it is so (though in terms of the 154 belt discussion, Floyd's victories over 154 beltholders are both >>>> than Pacquiao-Margarito in terms of legitimacy and quality). Winning the belt against a beltholder at the full weight establishes the legitimacy of the reign up front, rather than leaving things up in the air and still somehow acceptable.

If Martinez had demanded Williams fight him at 158 rather than the other way around, would that have been more or less acceptable?

 

X 2

I rate the individual fights. Belts are whatever, but if they have a lineage (not lineal title, but just a lineage) of any respect, it does enhance it at surface value. No more than looking at their resumes would tell you.

Pac vs. Margarito for me is utter trash because Margarito was not in the hypothetical P4P top 500 or divisional top anything, was a proven cheater, AND the fight was sold by pushing the "8th title in 8th class" thing, WHEN it was also not even half way up that 8th classes limit. This fight literally in my mind never happened in terms of how I rated either because of it in any way other than how I view their "skills." It proved nothing for Margarito other than chin and permanent eye damage and it proved even less for Pacquiao.

Mayweather's belt off of Oscar is meaningless as he just got it from Mayorga who just got it from vacancy the fight before. But it was still a high class victory as Oscar was 4-1 at the weight and was Oscar. The belt added and adds NO significance. Mayweather's belt off of Cotto simply shows Cotto had been in 3 notable fights at the weight, etc etc. The victory is good as Cotto was RING #1 JMW entering, but the belt played no significance.

These two are great wins. The belts, unfortunately, are meaningless.

 

Floyd belts are legit against current 154 champions: floyd has best 2 154 lbs champions. Fact.

 

Dawson dropping down to 168 for the first time in 7 years to take on the lineal champ while he was 175 lineal champ is even crazier/ballsier/better...

 

Ok fair. Cotto doesn't have a great record of legit belts upfront. Lots of fighters don't, for example Sergio at 154. Not sure this one ever got legitimized proper though.

But yeah, that would probably be even less acceptable, if possible. Both pretty far on the CW badness scale.

 

:deal

 

It was a p4p move, big time. Unfortunately it failed big time, and now punk posters get to call Dawson gutless.

 

See I think precisely the opposite. If we're talking in purely abstract, theoretically meritocratic terms (which of course do not actually exist in boxing), the guy who did the work to win the belt should have more justifiable say for where the fight should be held. Williams' demand was particularly problematic precisely because he was challenging for a belt without agreeing to fight at the full weight, despite competing there one year prior and on multiple other occasions.

 

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What...