So, could Hrgovic win the Rumble if we swap him in for Ali?

So who from that era is closest to Foreman power wise?

Foreman
Shavers
Cooney
Coetzee

Would be my list of the hardest hitters of that era

Aside from Foreman himself who on Frazier or Chuvalos resume would you rate as punchers on the same level as Itauma or Zhang? Just wondering

 

Yeah, I previously called Hrgovic El Radar.

He anticipated punches so well that he was able to always put his face directly in their path.

Such subtle and rare ability to be able to do same is all too often overlooked.

 

The point I'm making is that Itauma went from never going past 6 rounds against Heavyweights who are realistically not even in the top 20.

To fighting for a world title against a genuine top 10 Heavyweight.

For me there was no middle ground to Itauma's development they jumped in with both feet. Because they assumed Hrgovic doesn't look stand out in regards to the eye test.

Even Tyson was extended rounds before he challenged for a world title.

That development part for Itauma was missing.

 

Wilder did what Itauma tried to do won a title against a champion near the top of the division, whereas Itauma failed for a vacant belt against a guy bottoming out the top ten.

The difference is that Wilder got himself into great condition.

(Yes, Malik Scott was top 20 but that fight was two punches long.)

 

Wilder had a 5 inch height advantage and a 6 inch reach advantage over Stirverne so he could fight at his own pace behind the jab with those attributes.

Hrgovic is taller than Itauma with a longer reach and Itauma wasn't able to fight at his own pace.

Your comparison is correct but I do think Hrgovic is a tougher opponent than Stirverne.

 

They’re from the same tier, but Stiverne had better one punch power and counters and Hrgovic is better at outpointing people.

Like I always say, pull up the highlight reel from the Wilder fight and you’ll see Stiverne fighting a game fight and slamming Wilder with some hard shots (harder than Hrgovic’s punches on Itauma). People forget.

 

That's an interesting argument, considering you're conveniently leaving out the fact that Ron Lyle beat Earnie Shavers—the very guy you just named as one of the closest things to Foreman in that era.

So if the argument is that Foreman's victims generally struggled when they encountered someone with the attributes that made Foreman so dangerous, Lyle beating Shavers is a pretty obvious counterexample. And you're the one who brought Shavers into the discussion in the first place.

More importantly, what exactly are these supposedly unique "attributes" you're talking about? If you mean size, physical strength, punching power, and the ability to impose that physically, then you haven't established that Foreman's victims were somehow uniquely incapable of dealing with those qualities. You're simply asserting that they were.

And that's especially questionable when your own examples don't even support the premise consistently. Lyle beat Shavers, yet you omitted Lyle entirely while presenting Shavers as evidence for your argument.

If you want to argue that modern heavyweights would be uniquely equipped to handle Foreman, you need to actually demonstrate that—not just declare that anyone who possessed similar attributes would have beaten his opponents.

 

Except Itauma actually did hurt him with that punch. Hrgovic wasn't in serious trouble, but he was visibly rocked by it. That's precisely why "he didn't care because Itauma was finished" isn't much of a defense. He made the conscious decision to disregard defense against an opponent he believed was incapable of hurting him—and then got hurt.

That's a well-established flaw in boxing. Fighters routinely get caught or stopped because they become overconfident while hunting a finish and assume their opponent has nothing left. Joshua-Ruiz is an obvious example. Thinking your opponent is finished doesn't make dropping your defensive responsibility a virtue; it means you're gambling that your assessment is correct.

And even if we completely remove that particular punch from consideration, it still doesn't establish what you're claiming. This wasn't Hrgovic putting on some defensive masterclass for the rest of the fight before suddenly deciding to take one shot. Itauma was connecting with him regularly throughout the fight. Hrgovic was getting hit by an opponent who had already begun to gas badly, and whose punches were becoming increasingly telegraphed.

Spot on mate. If Hrgovic's punch anticipation is supposedly exceptional, the Itauma fight is certainly a bizarre choice of evidence for it.

 

I thought his punch anticipation was excellent. He, like everyone in the arena, watching at home, etc knew exactly what was coming. Personally speaking, I'd have got out of the way in the time he had to do so. In fact in the latter stages of the fight, I might have combed my hair, adjusted my trunks, tied my laces and then got out of the way. My God, they were rubbish

 

I'm not sure why you keep quoting me when critiquing Hrgos defence. At no point have I said he fought defensively or is a defence fighter? His pressure and counters were his defence. He forced Moses to work in every one of the rounds he lost, he demonstrably did not just march forward, or she'll up, and take Moses shots until he got tired. The pressure he applied was prefect, never allowing Ituama time to admire his work or take time off. When Moses wasn't punching on his own terms he was punching on Hrgovic's...and Hrgo touched Moses in every round with efficient, hard, accurate punches. The big uppercut and the hail Mary were the only shots that registered on the 'highlight reel' and I really think after round one he was thinking 'is this is?' He had no respect for Moses power but huge respect for his speed. Hrgovic could only have won the fight the way he did. Measured under pressure, brilliant condition forcing the pace and giving his oppnent no time to rest or think. Moses 'hard wired' to throw quick and hard and when pressured thats how he reacts.

It was not a defensive masterclass, it was a tactical one...

Thanks for your thoughtful and well reasoned response, you make some thought provoking points. Px