So, Hopkin's Wins Over ATG Welterweights...

Hm, i never thought you think that highly of Hopkins but i agree. It´s so with most fighters, they aren´t thought of as highly during their career as they are thought of some years after it. Just look at Lennox Lewis and actually it already is happening with Hopkins.
I can´t see Hopkins beeing rated objectivly over Monzon at mw but p4p-wise i think he should.

Imo Hopkins was more dominant than Monzon during his reign but then his opposition doesn´t have the deepness of Monzon´s. I´ll give the edge to Monzon at mw but not by as much as some others.

Well, Monzon didn´t defend his title in his forties. And sure Monzon never cheated You can talk down every opponent of every fighter like you did but that isn´t changing the facts. Fact is Hopkins beat at lhw the reigning king Tarver who beat the man who beat him, fact is he beat then p4p Top3 Wright and favt is he gave then p4p-Top5 and the best smw of all time a very close fight which many think he won. That´s pretty much for an old man, isn´t it?
And Hopkins is boring? Let me guess beside his late career and the Jones fight you didn´t watch many of his fights. Hopkins became boring, or a spoiler how some would call it, when he adjusted his style to his diminishing physical abilities. That´s not something that should be hold against him but it should count for him. Your Jones Jr. wasn´t able to do so for example.

Yep, it was very to tell that Oscar took Hopkins far more serious than Sturm.

Can´t see how anybody could give Wright more than 4 rounds against B-Hop. Watch Wrights previous fights and this one and you see what Hopkins did to him. He took away his favourite assets, his Jab and workrate, and beat him up, one of the best defensive fighters of the last 20 years, like nobody ever did. I think that was an masterclass performance of Hopkins. Not beautiful to watch though.

Sure, Tarver is far away from beeing great but at the time he proved he was the best lhw in the world and he didn´t just get beaten, he got dominated and beaten to the punch. How many mws did that during the history in the sport. Well, Monzon and Hagler didn´t.

He wasn´t doing better against Calzaghe than he was against Tarver or Wright. He gave him a close fight which imo could have gone either way, i had it 6-6 but because of the kd for Hopkins, and proved that he would have beaten him much easier if he had been younger.

You´re right Hopkins should have adjusted in the Taylor fights but i think he just couldn´t. I think he knew what he had to do but wasn´t able to execute is due to his age and, yes, weight-problems - remember how much fresher and agile he looked later against Tarver?

 

Hopkins certainly did put a clamp on Wright's jab and activity, but you're looking at it only one way. Wright neutralised Hopkins' offense too, which is why he outlanded him.

The manner he beat him was impressive, it was an uncomeptitve fight. But I'm pretty sure Hagler or Monzon would have stopped the Tarver that Hopkins faced. I mean, Tarver nearly got stopped by a shot to **** Roy Jones Jr in their third fight.

He was very impressive in the Tarver fight, but he was fighting a vastly inferior opponent to Joe Calzaghe. In the Wright fight it was an outright stinkfest. One or two punches and clinch, ad nauseum. I wasn't really impressed with either man that night. Wright didn't belong anywhere near 170 pounds and I didn't feel Hopkins took anywhere near enough advantage of that.

If Hopkins was willing to take some shots early on from Jermain in order to open him up, I'm positive he could have won both fights. He selected the little risk, little reward option. He should have known after the first fight at least that there was no way they were going to give him the decision in a close fight.

 

Really enjoyed much of this - some great points.

 

Right, Wright outlanded him but the harder, clearer shots came from Hopkins. And what makes his performance so impressive is that he beat a Top3 p4p fighter at his own game - ring generalship and defensive. Before the fight i thought Wright would outwork Hopkins to a close UD or SD, i didn´t expect this from Hopkins but he delivered - again.

I don´t think Hagler would have stopped him but i think Monzon would have. Fact is they didn´t even try so they never proved they would be able to achieve such a feat, Hopkins did and he did so way past his prime and was successful with it. Imo that is far too under-appreciated and that´s why he should rank above Monzon and Hagler p4p wise. He proved he could do it, they didn´t.

Sure, Tarver isn´t as good as Joe and the Wright fight was a stinker - but in no way boring to me. I was impressed with Hopkins making Wright fighting his fight, taking away Wright´s biggest assets and beating him in his own game. Not beautiful to watch but a very good performance.
Well, when people talk about the recent Hopkins they always forget what effects age has. Hopkins didn´t age better than most other fighters. The difference is his ability to adjust his style to his physical abilities, his ability to neutralize the strength of his opponents and his dedication to the sport. Wright was fighting out of his comfort zone at 170 pounds but so was Hopkins at age 42.

Perhaps, i don´t know. Actually i think Hopkins beat Taylor the first time and drawed with him the second time but i can see how you could have Taylor winning both. I just think he didn´t do enough to take away the belt from the champ.

I won´t deny i´m a Hopkins fan, he was the one who got me really fascinated about boxing and even though i try to be objective i might be too much fan from time to time.

 

Do some of you remember when X was lauded for his "power"? lol

Seems so long ago. Watching him through the years, he sure has gone through a metamorphosis in how people view him.

Still can't personally put him in my Top 10 middleweights though, if I had such a list. A Top 10-ish? Sure.

For the record, Dick Tiger defeated better fighters at LW than Monzon, Hagler, & X COMBINED. But I don't view him as "better" than Monzon or Hagler. X's win against Tarver counts for something, but not as much as some of you are making it to be. I don't give points to 'Nard for fighting in his 40's as some of you do either.

My opinion.

 

I thought Hopkins' shots were a bit more effective, and Wright landed a bit more, which counterbalanced it.

And even though Wright was p4p top 3, when you consider that Wright was the smaller man, and looked quite uncomfortable at 170, it wasn't that impressive a perfromance by Hopkins. There's no doubt in my mind that at a more neutral weight, Wright would have pulled it out.

Hopkins did move up, and credit to him for that, but I would have loved to have seen him move up and face a Galindez, Qawi or a Spinks, which were the prospects Monzon and Hagler were facing. I'm guessing he wouldn't have been so eager to jump weight. Just a guess. Could be wrong.

I'd say given Wright's age, and the weight, he was about as far from his best as what Hopkins was. Hopkins a little more age wise past his best, Wright a little more weight wise past his best.

I wouldn't have had a problem with either fight going to either man. Had Taylor by a point in the first, had the second a draw. More than anything I fault Hopkins for the way he fought, more so than the results of the fights. Perhaps he was too weight drained to step on the gas early and take the fight to Jermain, but it was painful to see him fight virtually the same fight twice.

 

Well, i think we will never agree on here. So, we should let it be.

That´s the thing. You just can guess that Monzon and Hagler would have beaten Tarver and that Hopkins wouldn´t have been so eager to jump up during their time but it´s fact that Hopkins did jump two weightclasses to beat Tarver. That accomplishment you can´t take away from him. He proved he can do it, Monzon and Hagler didn´t.
I don´t want to take anything away from them. These three are my Top3 mws, with only Monzon beeing the clear number one. But p4p-wise Hopkins accomplished more and is more proven.

Yeah, it´s about even.

I thought it was a shame that the decision went to the clearly inferior fighter but well that´s a flaw in the scoring system.