So what exactly is wrong with Nat Fleischer's top 10 heavyweight list?

1 - Louis
2 - Dempsey
3 - Jeffries
4 - Johnson
5 - Langford
6 - Wills
7 - Marciano
8 - J. Sharkey
9 - Schmeling
10 - Fitzsimmons

The list is based on a combination of h-2-h and overall accomplishments as a heavyweight; Gene Tunney may well rank in the top-5 based soley on ability, but his heavyweight resume is too thin.
[shrug]

 

1958 as I was living

1Johnson
2Jeffires
3Dempsey
4Louis
5Marciano
6Ruby Red
7Tunney
8Max Schmeling
9 Jim Corbett
10 Gene Tunney.

This is 58, so it was not long before Louis and Marciano retire, so they would have been fairly recent. Johnson and Jeff were still view as 1 and 2, as flip flopping them around and all. Dempsey follows shortly behind them. Corbett is still a top tier in that time. was temping in putting Sullivan in place of Schmeling.

 

great list Dempsey1238 :good :good

 

Something like :

1958

1 Dempsey
2 Louis
3 Marciano
4 Tunney
5 Johnson
6 Jeffries
7 Wills
8 Langford
9 Charles
10 Walcott

1971

1 Dempsey
2 Louis
3 Marciano
4 Frazier
5 Ali
6 Liston
7 Tunney
8 Johnson
9 Jeffries
10 Wills

 

This is head to head list between champions (except for Harry Wills), not based on achievement.

1958

1. Joe Louis

2. Ezzard Charles

3. Floyd Patterson

4. Jack Johnson

5. Gene Tunney

6. Harry Wills

7. Jack Dempsey

8. Rocky Marciano

9. Max Schmeling

10. Max Baer



1971

1. Muhammad Ali

2. Sonny Liston

3. Joe Frazier

4. Joe Louis

5. Ezzard Charles

6. Floyd Patterson

7. Jack Johnson

8. Gene Tunney

9. Harry Wills

10. Jack Dempsey

 

Even in 2007. I would not rank Patterson over Marciano. lol. Patterson had a VERY poor rein. He not only duck Liston, but Folly and Machen, and was taking on people who's records were 0-0. I mean I give more respect for Ali fighting Spinks with a 7-0 record, than I would with a 0-0 record. And he fought that type of foes though out his title rein. Sure he fought the best once he lost the title. But I can not forgive Patterson for that. And is one of the MAIN reasons Patterson is at the bottom tier of my top 20. Marciano at least fought his top contenders. So that alone should put Marciano up a few levels. If not a lot.

 

What accounts for Sonny Liston rising up between 1971 and 2007 ?

 

Why would you rate Dempsey over Louis in 1958 or 1971? Louis had by far the better resume, longetivity, didn't duck the most deserving challenger for 6 years, etc.

 

1958

1 Louis
2 Marciano
3 Dempsey
4 Jeffries
5 Corbett
6 Tunney
7 Johnson
8 Schmeling
9 Fitzsimmons
10 Baer

1971

1 Louis
2 Johnson (In 58 people still hated Johnson, but that hatred was mellowing by 71)
3 Dempsey
4 Marciano (slips slightly because you would have had longer to reflect on his body of work)
5 Jeffries
6 Corbett
7 Tunney
8 Wills (black fighters were starting to get the kudos they deserved in 71)
9 Charles (same reason as Wills)
10 Ali (A begrudging nod to his record thus far)