So who is greater in ATG Ranking? Pacquiao Vs Hoya?

Well then lets debate. :deal

Come on, I have a very god side by side, and have countered several attempts. What's yours.

 

ok and you are the expert........ who gets owned all the time....

correction 90% of the time

 

I'm waiting....Where's your rebuttal.

All your sorry ass does is throw insults.

I showed you why ODLH career is better, show me why YOU think Pac's is greater, and saying 70% of the poll says so is not a valid point. :deal

 

Let's hear yours.

Lets do a side by side comparison to Oscar De La Hoya, who I don't even have in the top 30, let alone top 20 or 25.

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You really fail to realize that Whitaker is leagues above Morales and Quartey is leagues above Larios, especially the Morales Pac fought, infact, Pac lost to a past prime, shot Morales, that has to be taken into consideration.

Also Larios was way past his best and Quartey was in his prime. That is a fact.

A Prime Oscar towers over Morales and Larios, especially the one that Pac fought and lost too.

It's an undenialble fact that Morales lost to a past prime Barrera, and journey man Zahir Raheem before Pac was able to beat him.

Yeah, I'll look. I'll also look at where Mosley ranks right now, and how he looks compared to the ODLH that Pac beat. As for Hatton-Vargas, Vargas is leagues above Hatton, Vargas was naturally bigger than ODLH, and on steroids! Vargas' skills are leagues above Hatton's. Hatton makes Vargas look like Sugar Ray Leonard.

If you'd understand boxing, you wouldn't fail to realize why Vargas and Mosley in 2003 were harder fights that 2008 ODLH and 2009 Hatton.

That's how I know you're ignorant to boxing. Oscar moved up to fight Whitaker (P4P#2), Castillejo (WBC champ), Vargas was bigger, Trinidad was bigger, Mosley on roids was bigger, Miguel Angel Gonzalez was bigger, Ruelas was actually bigger, and Hopkins and Sturm were far beyond just bigger. Oscar took on the best all the time, that is something Pac CANNOT say (ALL THE TIME).

You truly never saw Oscar in his prime did you? A Prime Oscar was faster, his handspeed was compared to the Sugars, and his POP was devastating.

Hell, their KO % is about the same, the main difference being that ODLH fought much better opposition that Pac.

IM WAITING

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Lets do this!

The Barrera that Pac fought had been pro 14 years had 3 losses, two in which he was brutally f-ed up and one where he took a sever beating while dishing one out, and 57-3-0.
That's three beatings.

Pernell was 12.5 years pro and should have been 40-0-0, p4p #2.
Chavez was 12.5 years pro, was 96-1-1 Should have been 96-2. But had never had a beating like Barrera.

ODLH moved up from 140 to fight the Whitaker at 147.
ODLH had one fight at 140 before fighting Chavez at 140 who already had a whoppong 8 fights under his belt at Jr. WW.

Pacquaio has fought Diaz, ODLH, Hatton after MAB and EM.

ODLH fought Vargas, Mayorga, Hopkins, Mosley, Trinidad, Gatti, Castillejo and Quartey after JCC and Pea.

I don't see your argument anymore.

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In part I'm glad you realize and admit Morales was shot. Secondly, Whitaker was NOT coming off a humiliating loss a la Morales. Infact Whitaker should have been undefeated coming into the fight with DLH and had had some impressive wins vs great opposition in his previous fights. Unfortunately Whitaker didn't deal well with the loss, got on the junk and ruined the rest of his career with drugs.

Let me school you on something. Shotness is not necessarily and always attributed to age. Size is not always attributed to height. You know Whiatker had beat JCV years before he lost to DLH, JCV the man that decked Winky Wright 5 times.

ODLH moved up to 147, a weight he was unfamiliar with to fight the reigning champ.

:rofl:rofl:rofl No you just didn't say that! First Quartey was in the PRIME of his LIFE, Larios was PAST his prime, Quartey was undefeated, and had one of the best jabs of his era. Larios was a good B level fighter in his prime.

Quartey had an iffy fight where he should have won easy, but because of Kds he ended up getting a questionable draw. His previous win was a little over a year and a half. A

Shane was on steroids was was clearly the stronger man that night. Oscar was clearly the smarter man.

You still didn't prove why EM was a better win than Whitaker, Mab a better win than JCC, Hatton a better win than Vargas.

So DLH has a few losses at the twighlight of his career, Pac has some in the beggining. It is very common for great fighters to rack up a few loses towards the end.

All you did was TRY to dissect ODLH resume, very uneffectively, but never even mentioned Pac's. You can dissect ODLH's resume all you want, but it's still better than Pac's.

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WTF??! Do you even follow boxing? Sure DLH had youth on his side, but how many times have we seen skill beat Speed?? HUNDREDS.

Morales had been fighting pro for 13 years when Pac finally beat him, had been in a several grueling wars and was obviously at the end of his career. Past his BEST, and arguably SHOT. Morales was not even a titlist, he wasn't even P4P, hell, out of Morales' last 6 fights he only won one, his hast hurrah vs Pac. GREAT indicator of shotness.

JCC had been pro for 12.5 years when DLH beat him, had one loss and a nice winning streak since, was the WBC champion and considred P4P. He still continued winning after with the exception of the DLH rematch.

You're F-ing insane if you think Morales was a better win.

How much does it matter??? Better question is how many ass kickings, or how many brutal wars that take something out of you was JCC in compared to MAB?? MAB was always and will always be inferior ro JCC.

And ON TOP of that, MAB and EM do not even come close to JCC's skill level. Mab and EM are probably the best MX of the early 2000's, but nowhere near JCC on the ATG...As you familiarize yourself more with boxing you'll understand it more.

 

I want to my brain cells to some improtant things than to breaking down pac's and hoya's resume...
but how about this....

pac came from 106 and jumping from division to division and fight the best at that time and beating HOF...... he fights the bigger guys and wins unlike hoya who fought smaller fighter on may and pac and got his a** beaten.... no disrepect to hoya I like the guy and also one of my idol but the humiliation that he gets on those big fights, makes me put him below pac in ATG....

 

Yeah, please your brain cells to effectively communicate with people. atsch

ODLH moved up to fight guys who were bigger than him, and those guys he moved up, some of them were in their prime, some who were not in their prime but were P4P top 10 ala Whitaker, and JCC, and most were Champions.

When you say ODLH didn't move up to fight someone proves how IGNORANT you are.

He moved up several times to fight the champion.

Guys he moved up to fight or who were bigger than him were:

Fernando Vargas
Shane Mosley II
Javier Castillejo
Pernell Whitaker
Julio Cesar Chavez I
Bernard Hopkins
Felix Sturm
Rafael Ruelas
Ricardo Mayorga
Ike Quartey

ODLH's humiliating losses come when he was on the downside of his career. That's another reason that further proves your ignorance. Hell, SRL was KO by Camacho!

ODLH lost to two men in his prime. Trinidad ATG, and Mosley ATG.

Pac has two losses to two journey men when he was a bit green, and has a loss to a shot Morales.

If you're going to count ALL of DLH's losses, the you need to count ALL of Pac's and who they were against.

Fool, just try to come with a rebutall for post #261.

 

uliuli this pretty much answers everything.

 

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:roll: Yeah you won buddy. :roll:

 

:roll: Because we all know that the 1 million *******s on ESB or not biased. Polls mean very little, and often prove very little.

That is my point exactly. DLH lost in many of his mega fights (which 3 of them were towards the down side of his career). But just looking at the fights he did win, and against who, he STILL has a better LEGACY. Just look at my side by side comparison and the reason s below that comparison if you still doubt.

People will remember the Trinidad as a robbery, sorry to burst your bubble. Many have tried very hard to remind DLH getting on his bike in rounds 11 and 12, but reality is most people remember that fight as a robbery.

In time, most will remember the DLH who moved up and beat Whitaker, Chavez, a roided Vargas, Mayorga, Leija, Ruelas, Castillejo, Gatti, the Mosley fights etc...

Unfortunately for you and Pac, that fight will be in the same boat as the Camacho-Leonard fight.

When I say kids, I mean no disrespect, I'm talking about kids, like 15 year olds to 19 year olds, kids who didn't have the privilage of following boxing in the 90's who think that the Hatton's and Cotto's of today can even be compared to Vargas and Trinidad.

Kids who think that the way Trinidad, Vargas, and DLH performed in the mid- late 2000's is what they were like in their prime.

Kids who rank Morales higher than Whitaker.

Pac is a great fighter, but you dudes overrate him. Look at my side by side comparison and see for yourself.

 

ATM its still DLH, boxing really begins at JWW. I'm sorry little guys the casual fans just doing pay attention to anything below that.

Now if Pac cleans up the WW division like I think he will then by the end of his career he will shoot way past ODH.

 

33 year old Chavez was better than the Barrera Pac beat. 33 year old Whitaker was better than the Morales Pac beat.

Whitaker and Chavez had been pro 12.5 years when ODLH fought them, Barrera was 14 year pro and then 18 year pro, while Morales was 13 year pro. That's one diffence, the other difference is neither Chavez or Whitaker had been in the type of devastating wars a la MAB and EM. On top of that, both JCC and Whitaker were on top and P4P. Morales had lost to a past prime Barrera and Zahir Raheem (journeyman) by the time Pac won, Morales wasn't even a champion.

 

is this your alt uli?atsch

 

Uli seems to be tearing your ass up...You cant even give a logical answer dude...Dont take it the wrong way, just being real with you!

Uli gave you his opinion and made a pretty damn good case on why he thinks Oscar has fought better comp. and I'm not the biggest Oscar fan but looking back at what he did...Oscar is one hell of a fighter.

 

is this your alt too????