So who should Calzaghe have fought?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by BUM FACER, Aug 10, 2008.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It is! It absolutley is. I am not talking about what Joe did.

    I'm talking about the people on the forum who try to make out that he is blameless for his weak resume. He is not blameless. He showed a real lack of ambition.
     
    McGrain, Aug 11, 2008
    McGrain, Aug 11, 2008
    #46
  2. BUM FACER

    BUM FACER You lack intensity Full Member

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    Which brings me back to the point which is...... he showed lack of ambition in people's eyes because he didnt fight RJJ or Hopkins. yet neither were in his weight division and neither were clamouring to fight him.

    and they are just two names in a 10 year career. so who are these other "big names". My argument is that they didnt exist. I'm a MASSIVE fan of Glencoffe but that is not a name who you can seriously tell me would satisfy his critics. and as for chad dawson....he's a relative new comer and in my eyes was damn lucky against an old Road Warrior!

    i think the point about his talent not matching his achievements is spot on. i think people confuse these two points far too often. the only other point i wiould make is that he COULD have chased possibly 2 fights (hopkins and RJJ) that were out there - people then overstate how much he should have chased them or indeed any other fights in america as if in that division that was all that mattered...

    anyway.. i just found an article predicting Lacy KO2. oh how i laughed.

    and as a final note....the leek muncher is going to retire soon. i doubt we'll be having this argument long after that has happened.

    we'll be too busy admiring David Hayes utter domination of the Heavyweight division :rofl
     
    BUM FACER, Aug 11, 2008
    BUM FACER, Aug 11, 2008
    #47
  3. "TKO"

    "TKO" Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Can you name me a super middleweight (except Calzaghe himself) over the past 10 years who has been a prime p4p top 10 man during the time they were in the division? Unless my memory's going seriously crazy there aren't any it's that simple. Kessler would probably be the nearest, I'd have had him placed 11-15 before the Calzaghe fight. Also, Hopkins was not prime or p4p top ten at the time Jones fought him. To be fair, I don't see wy Jones' resume is ridiculed it's a great one.
     
    "TKO", Aug 11, 2008
    "TKO", Aug 11, 2008
    #48
  4. PrideOfWales

    PrideOfWales Winston Zedmore Full Member

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    McGrain, some excellent points. Calzaghe fans are caught between two stools about his legacy because Joe himself isn't that interested in the history of the game, the traditions, the stories of the legends etc. Calzaghe just fights and is obviously very good at it but has always been more money than legacy driven. It took me a while to realise this fully but it simply comes down to that. Joe is more interested in fighting for the biggest amount of money for the least amount of threat. Which makes perfect business sense but hardcore boxing critics such as people on these forums won't respect that because it encourages all that is wrong about modern day boxing. To a lesser extent, I find it frustrating that we have systems in place that allow/encourage this to go on.

    Joe Calzaghe probably doesn't regret any of his career, he's made a bucket of cash, still has all his faculties in tact and has built up some highly impressive achievements. 45-0, WBO, IBF, WBA & WBC Super Middleweight champ, 2 weight Ring Magazine champ, UK Sports Personality of the Year, numerous boxer of the year awards... a seriously impressive list yet we all complain that he could have done so much more with himself.

    If Calzaghe was as concerned about his reputation and legacy as he was about his pennies then there's no doubt in my mind, he would be loved. Yes, his technique is sometimes borderline amateur but his heart and guts in the ring over the years would make many people fans. If the same events happened in the ring that happened against Sheika, Mitchell, Brewer fights except the location was in the States, I can't see there being too many disputes about his greatness.
     
    PrideOfWales, Aug 11, 2008
    PrideOfWales, Aug 11, 2008
    #49
  5. PrideOfWales

    PrideOfWales Winston Zedmore Full Member

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    PrideOfWales, Aug 11, 2008
    PrideOfWales, Aug 11, 2008
    #50
  6. "TKO"

    "TKO" Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I guess they don't have much choice if they want to fight the best U.S. fighters, since those guys don't seem to have much use for their passports!!!
     
    "TKO", Aug 11, 2008
    "TKO", Aug 11, 2008
    #51
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No, he showed a lack of ambition for reasons i've outlined in the post you can't have read properly - Calzaghe should have follwed the Hatton plan, not the Ottke plan.
     
    McGrain, Aug 11, 2008
    McGrain, Aug 11, 2008
    #52
  8. Fat Joe

    Fat Joe Let's have it right Full Member

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    Except there were no opponents who met this criteria.
     
    Fat Joe, Aug 11, 2008
    Fat Joe, Aug 11, 2008
    #53
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    This is a mostly fair position.

    I would add that Calzaghe's ATG status will be defined by criteria. If the person rating the fighters is primarily concerned with competition, then he must be rated lower than by a rater who is using criteria conerning achievment and skillset, where Joe excells.

    But no caveats. No, "he was ducked" bull****. Calzaghe never stepped into the kitchen. I wish he had.
     
    McGrain, Aug 11, 2008
    McGrain, Aug 11, 2008
    #54
  10. PrideOfWales

    PrideOfWales Winston Zedmore Full Member

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    We all do.. Everyone that is, except Calzaghe himself.
     
    PrideOfWales, Aug 11, 2008
    PrideOfWales, Aug 11, 2008
    #55
  11. BUM FACER

    BUM FACER You lack intensity Full Member

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    sorry to be repetitive. but asides from RJJ and Hopkins (just for arguments sakes let's just assume that for reasons on both sides these fights were not destined to happen). who should he have fought and where?

    should he simply have fought the same people as he did but in the states? i dont think that's what your saying. and if it is it's a pretty sad state of affairs if that's what it takes...
     
    BUM FACER, Aug 11, 2008
    BUM FACER, Aug 11, 2008
    #56
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    That's exactly what i'm saying.

    Again, look at Hatton. Goes to the States and fights guys he could have arranged to fight in Manchester. His reward is a fight with the best.

    If Calzaghe had a serious American presence when he's negotiating with Jones or Hopkins the fight probably comes off. Because the Brit who's been destorying good fighters on American free-to-air tv is seen as a serious threat to both. Superfight, is the overused term.

    Massive purse, massive fights, p4p status beckon. And it wouldn't take no 20 defences to get there.
     
    McGrain, Aug 11, 2008
    McGrain, Aug 11, 2008
    #57
  13. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    ROY JONES JR
    JAMES TONEY
    BERNARD HOPKINS (before he was 43 and had the stamina of a grandmother)
    STEVE COLLINS
    SVEN OTTKE
    DARIUSZ MICHALCZEWSKI
    JERMAIN TAYLOR
    KELLY PAVLIK
    ANTONIO TARVER
    GLEN JOHNSON
    WINKY WRIGHT

    Off the top of my head, there's ELEVEN guys who fought in or around Calzaghe's weight between 1997 and 2006 and that are better than Lacy or Kessler IMO (except Ottke)- the NINE years that Calzaghe done NOTHING except make routine WBO title defences. I absolutely fail to believe Camp Calzaghe could not have got fights with ANY of these guys if they had really really pushed the boat out to do so.

    You may provide reasons why he couldn't have fought some of them, but surely even the most avid Calzaghe fan cannot provide reasons why he never got a fight with any of them.

    OK, of the eleven, I believe fights with these guys COULD definitely have been made if they'd went for it, made serious concrete offers, been up for leaving the home comforts of Wales, and really cared about greatness and legacy:

    ROY JONES JR (1997-2003 they were champions in the divisions next to each other- that's 6 years and Cal was never tempted to go for a fight with the p4p#1)
    BERNARD HOPKINS (2001-2005 they were both the top guys in their divisions, but B-Hop was making money having huge fights with Trinidad & De La Hoya: what was Calzaghe's excuse??)
    DARIUSZ MICHALCZEWSKI
    JERMAIN TAYLOR
    KELLY PAVLIK
    ANTONIO TARVER
    GLEN JOHNSON
    WINKY WRIGHT
     
    DINAMITA, Aug 11, 2008
    DINAMITA, Aug 11, 2008
    #58
  14. Fat Joe

    Fat Joe Let's have it right Full Member

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    :patsch Terrible post
     
    Fat Joe, Aug 11, 2008
    Fat Joe, Aug 11, 2008
    #59
  15. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    I'm not even going to bother arguing it. OK then, fair enough Calzaghe fans, there is NO WAY he could ever have got fights with ANY of them, OK.
     
    DINAMITA, Aug 11, 2008
    DINAMITA, Aug 11, 2008
    #60
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