So why did Langford lose...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Russell, Aug 1, 2007.


  1. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

    43,650
    13,048
    Apr 1, 2007
    Against Wills so many times?

    Bad styles match-up, massive size difference, a lot of shorter fights near the end of their series...

    What was it?
     
  2. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

    19,404
    278
    Oct 4, 2005
    First of all, Wills was a damn good fighter. If Dempsey didn't duck him, he might have been known as one of the better champions in history.
    Second, as you pointed out, there was a big size difference.
    And third, Langford had been in a lot of fights, had an eye problem and was past his best.
     
    louis54 and George Crowcroft like this.
  3. FlatNose

    FlatNose Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,800
    25
    Feb 16, 2006
    Don't forget too, that Langford was not really a natural Heavyweight., and Wills was a full sized (especially for that time) big guy.
     
    louis54 likes this.
  4. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

    43,650
    13,048
    Apr 1, 2007
    Bah, sorry for the horrible spelling. It was early in the morning and I got some wired crossed.

    The first few times they fought, it wasn't that far into Langford's career, was it?

    And Dempsey was going to fight Wills, wasn't he? Wasn't Dempseys choice the fight didn't go through?
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,002
    48,092
    Mar 21, 2007

    That is such an interesting one. Dempsey was up for that fight, there can be little doubt of that, but although contracts were signed, I think that was more about press and leverage than actually seeing the fight through. Contractually it was so easy to walk away from that it was basically meaningless.

    Dempsey would hav shown had the fight been made for serious money and I think he would have won.

    However, Wills offer to fight Dempsey "on any street corner" was a serious one, I feel.

    Wills was a great fighter. Possibly the best heavy not to lift the title...there are plenty of other guys from that sort of era who dispute that mind. Anyway, point is, no shame in a middleweight losing to a fighter like that.
     
  6. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

    43,650
    13,048
    Apr 1, 2007
    Yeah, I agree.

    They fought like, nearly a dozen times though. Langford won a few, but I guess I just imagined he would of won more, seeing as what a great he is and what not.
     
  7. Marciano Frazier

    Marciano Frazier Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,935
    56
    Jul 20, 2004
    Because, A. Langford was over the hill for most of their fights, and B. Wills was a top-notch fighter in his own right.
     
  8. achillesthegreat

    achillesthegreat FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE Full Member

    37,070
    29
    Jul 21, 2004
    Wills was a great big fighter and at his best. Langford was a great small fighter and at the end of his run.

    I think the consensus is Wills was unlucky, he didn't get the Dempsey fight and he came about the end of a great era. On paper Langford should be rated highly, in turn Wills should be rated pretty highly too. Say top30.
     
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,585
    27,248
    Feb 15, 2006
    Also it is a moot point how many fights Langford lost.

    He definitely won two (knockouts)

    He probably lost six

    The rest are a bit ambiguous.
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  10. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

    43,650
    13,048
    Apr 1, 2007
    Why don't the fights Langford lost mean anything...?
     
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,585
    27,248
    Feb 15, 2006
    They do.

    The series was however prety even for the first five bouts with the only knockout wins coming to Langford.

    Beyond that Wills was arguably putting the stamp on Langford's decline.
     
    Rspen46 likes this.
  12. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

    43,650
    13,048
    Apr 1, 2007
    Ah, okay. Gotcha.
     
  13. Cojimar 1945

    Cojimar 1945 Member Full Member

    370
    5
    Jun 22, 2005
    The deterioration that comes with aging would appear to have something to do with it.
     
    Rspen46 likes this.
  14. Rspen46

    Rspen46 Member Full Member

    391
    165
    Jun 6, 2013
    Harry Wills vs Sam Langford

    1914 - Wills - DRAW - Both Prime - Wills - 210 - Langford - 187
    1914 - Wills - Lost KO 14 - Both Prime - Wills - 210 - Langford - 190
    1915 - Wills - Won UD - Wills Prime - Langford - Post-Prime - Wills - 205 - Langford - 195
    1916 - Wills - Won UD - Wills Prime - Langford - Post-Prime - Wills - 210 - Langford - 190
    1916 - Wills - Lost KO 19 - Wills Prime - Langford - Post-Prime
    1916 - Wills - Won UD - Wills Prime - Langford - Post-Prime - Wills - 204 - Langford - 195 - Wills Won Easily
    1916 - Wills - Won UD - Wills Prime - Langford - Post-Prime - Wills - 215 - Langford - 204 - Langford Down in Round 2
    1917 - Wills - Won UD - Wills Prime - Langford - Post-Prime - Both appeared to be throwing what they called Creep Puff Blows, clearly not wanting to hurt each other.
    1917 - Wills - Won UD - Wills Prime - Langford - Post-Prime - Wills - 203 - Langford - 198
    1917 - Wills - Won UD - Wills Prime - Langford - Post-Prime - Wills - 203 - Langford - 196
    1918 - Wills - Won KO 6 - Wills Prime - Langford - END - Langford took a Severe Beating, Sam was going blind & also going downhill overall very quickly.
    1918 - Wills - Won TKO 8 - Wills Prime - Langford - END - Langford took another Bad Beating
    1919 - Wills - UD - Wills Prime - Langford - END
    1919 - Wills - UD - Wills Prime - Langford - END
    1919 - Wills - UD - Wills Prime - Langford - END
    1920 - Wills - UD - Wills Post - Prime - Langford - END
    1922 - Wills - UD - Wills Post - Prime - Langford - END

    Wills - 14-2-1 Overall
    Wills - 0-1-1 with both in Prime
     
  15. Rspen46

    Rspen46 Member Full Member

    391
    165
    Jun 6, 2013
    too many langford Jock sniffers just as their are for Aaron Pryor, although Sam deserves a lot more praise than Pryor, it's just that they've overdone it, they say if you pick anyone that beat Sam, he was too old, he was blind, he was this or that, it's always excuses for him without the hard evidence to back it up, they only want to rely on his Wins, he was a great fighter that's obvious, how great we will never know, their were other great black champions, so why he was never one, don't always claim Race as the issue, sometimes yes, others, no, he just never got a title, so yes that hurts him, you can't build him up like he had several, maybe there was other reasons he never won a title, Wills beat a couple of solid fighters at an advanced age and was the #1 contender when well past his Prime, and won a lot of fights then, he had no excuses.