Sock of Ages Louis/Dempsey

Faster hands than Frazier my ass. No Way. Also, Dempsey's "Fast starting ability" and "Fast Hands" are negated in the fact Louis was a fast starter, and had faster hands than Dempsey. Dempsey is going to need more. There were plenty of attributes where louis exceeds Dempsey in. Style wise, Dempsey's come forward style plays right into Louis hands. You cannot beat Louis by coming into him. You beat him by boxing and backpeddaling(conn, Ali, Walcott).


I will say it again...if jack comes out and tries to take Louis early..he gets knocked out. Brutally. He will be on his back for a lot longer than he was against 37 year old Flynn too.

What about poor Harry Wills? How does Dempsey beat him?

 

Answer to your question...Because prime Dempsey was better than Marciano by virtually all the boxing experts who saw them both...A fact, not an opinion....If all the writers who saw them both, would have placed Marciano [ who I saw MSG,against Vingo} over Dempsey, I would respect the people who saw them both...Wouldn't you ?Prime Dempsey was twice as fast as Rocky, and just as rough and tough...All things equal "Speed Kills', and peak Dempsey fast as a welterweight, was Dempsey described.....

 

Dempsey was more of a two handed puncher then Frazier was.

Yes Marciano exceeded Dempsey in stamina, perhaps punching power and physical strength but thats irrelevant here. If Dempsey is to take Louis, he has to hurt him early, so stamina wouldnt be a massive issue here.

I dont know about Harry wills because i have only seen 1 of his fights, when he was well well past his prime so it isnt exactly fair to judge. I cannot write him of because i simply dont know of his abilities. Alot of the sportswriters in those days were racist so they may well have been biased against wills. On the other hand, some people may exxagerate his abilities.

I think you are forgetting that Louis was also knocked down early by inferior fighters.

 

This little phrase you like to repeat, is getting old and tiresome. It is outdated. Many of the old timer historians were extremley bias in favor of old time fighters. Why do you think fighters like Burley, Moore, Charles, H Johnson, Walcott, even Louis, Pep, Saddler failed to make the top 5 in historians lists 50 years ago, but now get the well overdue respect from most boxing fans/experts today. Ratings improve over time. I personally think a Marciano-Dempsey fight is even money. I also rate Marciano over Dempsey historically by good margin. Marciano did things better than dempsey in some areas that would be important in a fight between the two, and dempsey was better in other areas. I think you are putting way too much emphasis on speed. But let's keep the subject Dempsey vs Louis specifically.

Many old time historians rate Jim Driscoll over Willie Pep at featherweight. You don't agree with that do you?

 

I agree with suzie here, many of the old historians were very biased. Old Nat rated Bob Fitzimmons as the third best heavyweight ever and has Louis at #6. Lol at that. Fitz as a heavy ahead of Louis and Dempsey? I dont think old Nat had Willie Pep among his top 5 featherweights either, which is a joke.

 

No Doubt. But my opinion is the men most likey to defeat Louis are the highly skilled movers/ first class counter punchers(Conn, Walcott, Schmeling, Ali). Swarmers who walk right into Louis get destroyed. Look what happened to Max Baer( who hit every bit as hard as dempsey with both fists) when he tried to walk into joe louis. I do not see Dempsey coming into Louis and surviving.

 

Fair enough. I agree that a mover has a better chance to beat Louis then a swarmer.

I always thought that Louis would have an edge vs swarmers because of his power but he himself said that he could never beat Marciano because he didnt like pressure. Intersting quote, not sure if he was being honest or being humble.

 

I think Louis would have knocked Marciano out. And you know how much I love Rocky. These guys, they cannot walk into Louis and come out alive. Again, just my opinion. I think very very highly of Joe Louis.

 

That's not what she said.


Still, Louis' handspeed and combination punching stop Dempsey in about 7.

 

Yes theyb were so biased thatvthyey brated Ray Robinson as the top welterweight, they were so biased that they picked Ike Williams as an alltime great, so biased that many of bthose writers of the 19840s picked Louis as the greatest HW of them all, so biased that they raved about Willie Pep, [as I who saw Pep raved about Willie]as being the cleverest featherweight ever, so biased that many amongst these writers picked Ezzard Charles over Gene Tunney LHW...It
It seems fair to say that these "Biased" writers who raved about those great fighter I cited from my era , the 1940s, when comparing Jack Dempsey with Rocky Marciano,using the same criterias, as above in choosing Dempsey as the better fighter...I'm also sorry that"my little phrase I like to repeat" is getting tiresome to you,but I will not purge
from my mind all the great fighters I have seen live, and all the "biased"
Writers I have read...That I cannot do...The opinions of these same writers who saw the eras of Dempsey -Marciano,are ok if they happen to agree with you, but when they choose a Dempsey for example over Marciano , they are somewhat biased in favor of the oldtime boxers...
This logic to coin a phrase Is illogical...Keep punching...

 

I pick prime Marciano to beat Louis. Frazier-Louis is a toss up, either Louis early or Frazier close on points.

 

Personally I think only Patterson, Ali and perhaps Ali had as fast or faster hands than Dempsey. But that´s just me.

I also want to add that Dempsey is one of the best finishers in hw history, on par with Tyson and Langford, only second to Louis himself.

 

Baer is nowhere near Dempsey in terms of defence, skill and handspeed though.

I think movers pose a problem for Louis but he will get them out in the end. All but Ali.

I also think swarmers stylewise pose a bigger problem for him. Louis didn´t like to back up, he still could win but the great swayrmers all pose a big threat to him.

 

Very possible. Like I said, Dempsey early or Louis midrounds. I wouldn´t bet a cent on either one.

 

I would put Marciano over Dempsey on finishing ability. Marciano knocked out every rated opponent he ever fought. Dempsey cannot lay claim to that. I also would rate Foreman and Liston above Dempsey as finishers.

The two best finishers in HW history are Tyson and Louis, and they are in a league above everyone else.

Tyson, Charles, Walcott, Louis, Tunney had faster hands.