Some (dare I say it) critical comments after watching LEONARD v HEARNS I again....

divac · Feb 20, 2009

Drew101 said: ↑

Nah..there were a few rounds which, while closely contested, were simply good, spirited rounds as opposed to being truly great. It was still a very good fight, with a few rounds to store away in the time capsule, but it did have a few lulls, and an element of sameness to it that would cause me to rate a fair number of fights ahead of it.

As I said in Classic, Leonard-Hearns 1 was intriguing because of the shifts of momentum, and the style reversal that took place in the fight. And there were enough punches landed throughout the fight that it was never completely devoid of action at any point. There have been many better action fights, but the concensus at the time was that, in terms of living up to the spectacle, it did a pretty good job of it..which was tough to do, given the build-up that took place.
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Completely agree with you about Leonard-Hearns.

I believe Dinamita is overanalyzing the fight trying to find fault with it.

Leonard fought cautious for good reason, he was fighting a freak of nature Welter that could put his light out with a single shot.....and it was terribly hard for him to box a fighter with that type of jab and with that type of reach.

Hearns was doing great taking his time and using his reach boxing Leonard from a distance.....it would have been foolish of him to press the pedal and try to do more than that against a conservative moving target like Leonard who had his eyes open wide throughout just looking for Tommy to make an aggressive mistake.

It was the type of fight that each fighter wanted to make the other fight a certain way.....thats what made it so intrigueing......I'm certain Leonard was pushing for Hearns to have gotten ultra aggressive so that he could have his try to counter Hearns off of his mistake....and though Hearns never really went for the gusto, Leonards plan to key off of mistakes worked for him, as he was able to turn the tide and the momentum of the fight in various instances by landing a big shot that would hurt Hearns, just when it seemed Hearns was about to cruise to an easy points victory.

I watched it as it happened live on television.
Some of the action that Dinamita was looking for out of this fight did'nt happen because of the cerebral tenacity of both combatants.....
Both of these combatants are so good at taking advantage of mistakes, that either fighter pushing the fight more than what they were doing would have put them in harms way.

Had Leonard pushed the envelope to early in the face of finding himself losing the early rounds, and wanting to go for broke.....Hearns is too good a sharp shooter, and its likely he'd have laid out Leonard in the fashion he did Cuevas.
The same for Hearns.....Leonard was already hurting Hearns off of his mistakes and Hearns was boxing....can you imagine if the many more opportunities that Leonard would have had, had Hearns opened up seeking to stop Leonard?

A gem of a chess match, several turns in momentum.....
.....both fighters hurt at various points in the fight.
Both fighters showed true grit to comeback and establish themselves when they got hit with a shot that would visibly rock them......
....and just when you thought that Hearns was going to cruise in the final rounds......Dundee in the corner telling Leonard "you're blowing it kid, you're blowing it"......
.....Leonard sensing that time is running out, hits Tommy with a stunning shot and goes for broke.

Imo a marvelous and exciting ending to a great fight.

I disagree with you Dinamita.....short of extended toe to toe action, the fight had everything one would expect of two great fighters in it to win!

Great fight, and the ending was for the ages!

heart · Feb 20, 2009

DINAMITA said: ↑

Have you ever watched a fight again after a long long time, and had a completely different impression of it the second time?

That's what I experienced last night when re-watching Leonard-Hearns I for the first time in years today.

This thread isn't intended to be overly critical of either man. When I made my recent p4p top 100 thread, I think I had Sugar Ray around 14th and the Hitman around 34th, so I rate both men very highly. I think SRL is one of the most talented and skilled all-round fighters to ever step into the ring. I think Hearns is an ATG fighter at 147 and 154, and a weight-jumping miracle. For a ww to end his career fighting at good level at cruiserweight is pretty spectacular, and always will be.

However, there were a few things that came to me as a bit of a shock on my re-watch.

The first thing was: I'm certain I've seen people on here many times proclaiming that this is one of the best fights ever, that it's a better fight than Duran-Leonard I, that it's SRL's best win, that it's one of Tommy's best performances before the 14th round, etc...

Sorry, but I just don't see any of that.

For a start, I don't think it's very exciting nor do I think it is a fight of particularly high quality.

Duran-Leonard I is so so vastly superior in terms of excitement value and pure high octane, high skill, high quality action that I really don't see the comparison at all.

And, crucially, I don't believe it shows either man in a very good light!!

For me, this fight is a bit like Mayweather v De La Hoya where Mayweather fans sat through one of the most turgid performances of Floyd's career, and then after he edged the decision their memories were erased and they were lauding a stunning performance of skill up there with Whitaker-Nelson!!

I am aware that I'm maybe sounding terribly cynical, but I don't think either man performed very well on the night.

Sugar Ray Leonard's performance was bizarre. He was languid, lethargic, reserved - not anything like himself. This can't even be attributed to Hearns's boxing, because SRL was in this mode straight from the first bell. He never exerted himself at any point, never opened up and tried to win whole rounds with sustained strategic attacks, he seemed content to stay in the fight, minimize the damage from Hearns's shots, and once or twice he exploded into life briefly before settling back into his torpor.

A few times Angelo Dundee could be heard to shout at him: "You're blowin' it kid!", which makes me think this could not have been a deliberate tactic, but by the end I felt that it was Leonard's tactic that only he himself had in his mind before the fight. The only way I can account for his lethargy is by thinking that he thought that Tommy has a weak chin/poor resilience beforehand, and planned to conserve energy so that he could wait until around the 13th before opening up and stopping the tired Hitman. You could see how as soon as Tommy was wobbling in the 14th, Ray was waving the referee in rather than just finish the job himself, he was clearly concerned with the time, he wanted it stopped as soon as possible rather than have to hunt the KO.

It seems very strange for me to now criticize Tommy's performance as well, I realize that. He comfortably outboxed one of the greatest boxers in history over 13 rounds and had built up a clear points advantage by the time of the stoppage.

Yes, I appreciate how good a feat of boxing that was. However, that only tells half the story. For a start, Leonard was not actually putting up much of a fight. Had SRL thrown so few punches or mounted so few sustained attacks against any top fighter at the time, he would've slumped behind on points. Now, SRL may have adopted this approach purely because it was Tommy he was fighting and so would not have fought like this against anyone else, but still the point is valid, Tommy was doing what he had to do, doing what he needed to, throwing punches and winning rounds, but to me he never looked flat out either - because he didn't have to be. Leonard was plodding around the ring, looking compact, looking strong, but never really forcing the action for any length of time. Tommy boxed as well as he was made to, but he was never having to fight to the best of his capabilities.

I suppose so far has not actually been critical of Tommy, more a remark on his performance and on the fight in general.

But, and I know this is a well-worn path and a thing which is generally accepted, I really was pretty taken aback at just how weak Tommy's chin was. It may very well have been something to do with him coming in at only 145lbs, but it seemed to me that almost every time Tommy was caught with even a glancing blow, he looked visibly hurt. Any clean punch had his legs going, and when it came to the 13th, it really didn't take all that much artillery to leave Tommy a dead man walking.

For all the hype and allure of Leonard v Hearns I, I think Leonard performed far better against Benitez, and far far better even in his defeat to Duran!! I think Tommy was better against Benitez too, a better showcase of his all-round abilities.

What do you guys think, am I right to an extent :good or was I high on crack when watching this fight?? :rasta
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**** man what is this, a school project?

Learn to be economical with your thoughts and words.

divac · Feb 20, 2009

heart said: ↑

**** man what is this, a school project?

Learn to be economical with your thoughts and words.
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Turn the page if its not your cup of tea.....
.....I actually enjoy reading peoples posts that explain their opinion in detail.

A random "Leonard-Hearns was not that great a fight, and is way overrated" just does'nt cut it for my taste.

heehoo · Feb 20, 2009

Thread Stealer said: ↑

For action, the fight isn't very good.

Much of it was tactical. Even some boos because of the slow pacing, especially rounds 9 thru 12.

The shifts in momentum and skill level were great, but the rematch was actually better for action.
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Hearns got jobbed in the rematch.

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Some (dare I say it) critical comments after watching LEONARD v HEARNS I again....

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Some (dare I say it) critical comments after watching LEONARD v HEARNS I again....

divac Loyal Member Full Member

heart Active Member Full Member

divac Loyal Member Full Member

heehoo TIMEXICAH! Full Member