Some may rate Delahoya as a Top10 ATG in 20years

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by PowerPuncher, Oct 18, 2007.


  1. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Seriously the argument will be made as such. Delahoya was a natural Super Feather who became a champ at this weight but couldnt make a fight against the best at 130lber

    He jumped to lightweight dominating top champions and contenders at lightweight like Ruelas, Leija, Molina and finally settled the score with the other top2 fighter at 130 Gernaro Hernandez. Delahoya dominated him too. The only man left was M.A.Gonzalez, a fight was hard to make

    In persuit of greatness Delahoya jumped into his 3rd weight class to 140lbs to face near prime Top10 ATG JCChavez with a record of 96-1-1. 10lbs over where he won his belt against a man rated P4P no1 by many. Delahoya put in 1 of the most dominant performances seen competely dominating Chavez.

    Delahoya would not take any easy fights immediately squaring off with his lightweight nemesis MaGonzalez, the only man who could challenge his lightweight supremecy. MAG also undefeated at 41-0 lost nearly every round to Delahoya. Delahoya was about to face Tyszu but Tyszu just just been ko'd by Vince Phillips. Delahoya would go on to beat Quartey who destroyed Phillips

    Delahoya had dominated 3 divisions rarely losing a round but some were still calling Welterweight king Whitaker P4P no1. Delahoya would go up yet another division to decide once and for all who was P4P no1, the greatest in the sport. Whitaker was a top10 ATG near his prime. Whitaker was untouchable, undefeated and the greatest defensive of fighter of all time. Delahoya was aggressive throwing lightening fast 8punch flurys. Whitaker defensive genius made it hard for Delahoya to land at times but he still outlanded Whitaker being the much more aggressive fighter. Delahoya had beaten one of the greatest fighters of all time

    Delahoyas achievement of beating all the champs in 4 divisions from 130lbs to 147lbs in just 3 years was reminicent of Henry Armstrong beatign 3 champs in 1 year.

    Delahoya would defend his belt 5 times against top competition, including Ray Leonard conqueror Camacho before rematching the great Chavez after the first match ended on a cut. Delahoya was dominant yet again.

    The only controversy surrounding Delahoya was at Welterweight there were 2 other belt holders, the great Ike Quartey and Felix Trinidad. Delahoya would beat the great Quartey how had been avoided by the best and had blown out Tyszu conqueror Phillips

    Delahoya had beaten everyone 147 and below except for 1 man Felix Trinidad the IBF Welterweight Champion for 6 years with 15 title defenses and himself coming off a victory over ATG Whitaker. Delahoya would dominate Trinidad easily winning 9-10 rounds. It seemed the judges had been bought off, Delahoya despite proving ultimate supremacy had been robbed

    Delahoya seemed devasted by this robbery but to many was undefeated still. He would fight 1 of the best in the sport yet again in Shane Mosley. The Huge Lightweight Champ, with massive stregth, speed, power and boxing ability. Mosley is an ATG and would win a close but clear decision over Delahoya who seemed to fight the wrong fight. Mosley would later confess to taking steroids, would he have been able to beat Delahoya fairly without steroids?

    It seemed Delahoya was done as a top flight fighter. He couldnt get a rematch with Mosley and there seemed nowhere else to go despite fighting 2 weight champion Gatti and dominating.

    Delahoya did the unthinkable he would move into his 5th division 24lbs north of where he won his first belt to fight Castillijo. He completely dominated and had become 1 of the very few 5 weight champs of all time. Only Hearns and Leonard could claim the same.

    Delahoya would now look to prove himself against the Number 1 154lber Fernando Vargas. Vargas had beat ATGs Winky Wright and Quartey. Vargas fans argued he would be undefeated if it wasn't for the fouling tactics of Felix Trinidad. Delahoya and Vargas fought a close exciting fight where amazingly Delahoya would KO Vargas in brutal devastating fashion

    Delahoya now sought to beat the 1 man who truly beat him, Shane Mosley in a super fight. Delahoya clearly outboxed Mosley and looked to have avenged his defeat until yet again the judges robbed him. Delahoya had proved himself number 1 at 154lbs and 1 of the true all time greats in this fight.

    Not being able to get a rematch Delahoya did what no one had done before and beat the Huge Middleweight Sturm to become a 6 Weight World Champion. Delahoya would fight possibly the greatest Middleweight of all time in Hopkins to

    The semi-retired Delahoya would prove his greatness yet again by beating Mayorga to become 154lb champion yet again. Now way past his prime at 34 years old Delahoya sought the biggest fight in the sport against P4P King Floyd Mayweather. Delahoya and Mayweather fought an incredibly close fight and many had Delahoya winning including 1 judge. It would be a Split Decision and most commented Delahoya would have dominated if he was 4-6years younger.

    No I don't agree with this but its a good case for top10 ATG
     
  2. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    intersting post, i bet some losers in the general forum think so too
     
  3. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

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    There are some good points and some arguments that are complete bollocks.

    The lousy arguments far outweigh the valid points.
     
  4. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

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    Leija and Molina were not lightweights. They were top junior lightweights who moved up in weight to face DLH in title bouts. Hernandez was a top 130 lb. fighter also who moved up to face DLH. DLH fought two times @ 130, he wasn't a top 2 jr. lightweight.

    Chavez wasn't even ranked in the top 10 p4p at the time. His prime was in the late 80s, and everyone at the time knew Chavez wasn't the top 140 lb. figher in the world. He only had a belt because he got a gift in the rematch against Randall and ducked a rubber match for a decade.

    To dominate three divisions, you should beat the best guys there at that weight class. He fought two times @ 130. He beat ONE world class lightweight during his time @ 140. He beat two world class jr. welterweights during his time at 140, and even MAGO wasn't exactly that proven at 140.

    The Whitaker fight was controversial and there was never a rematch. Whitaker's prime was at lightweight in the early 90s. He wasn't quite the same @ WW and had looked poor in 2 of his previous 3 bouts, aruguably losing to Rivera and being behind on the cards versus Hurtado.

    Different times. More divisions, more belts to win, different weigh-in rules.



    The Quartey fight was controversial and there was no rematch. The "robbery" in DLH-Trinidad was greatly exaggerated. Rounds 1, 4, 8 and 9 were all close. Saying DLH easly won 10 rounds means you probably went to the Eugenia Williams school of scoring fights.

    Mosley admitted to taking roids in 2003 in the 2nd fight, not 2000 in teh first bout.

    Calling Quartey and Winky (especially Ike) ATGs is extremely iffy. Plus, Vargas had looked bad in his 2 post-Trinidad bouts.


    No he didn't. 16 of the 28 ringside media guys had Mosley winning. 8 had Oscar winning. 4 had a draw. Nearly everyone agreed it was a close fight. And Mosley was new at 154 and hadn't won a fight in 2 yrs.

    The decision in THIS fight between an Oscar and a Felix was worse than the decision between the two guys of the same first names 5 years earlier.

    PowerPuncher]

    The semi-retired Delahoya would prove his greatness yet again by beating Mayorga to become 154lb champion yet again. Now way past his prime at 34 years old Delahoya sought the biggest fight in the sport against P4P King Floyd Mayweather. Delahoya and Mayweather fought an incredibly close fight and many had Delahoya winning including 1 judge. It would be a Split Decision and most commented Delahoya would have dominated if he was 4-6years younger.
    [/quote]

    DLH won 4, maybe 5 rounds to Floyd Mayweather. Yeah, Oscar is older and past his prime.

    He was also considerably bigger, fighting at 154 since 2001. Around that time, Floyd was fighting @ 130 and weighing in at 136 unofficially on fight night. He never had fought above 147 before and had only fought 3x at 147, where he didn't look especially filled out to begin with.
     
  5. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Huge Fights:

    Chavez 1 - dominated
    Chavez 2 - dominated
    Whitaker - won clearly for me
    Quartey - got the decision had Quartey winning
    Trinidad - deserved the decision
    Mosley - lost
    Mosley 2 - lost - I'd give it to Mosley, allot give it to Delahoya
    Vargas - ko'd him
    Hopkins - lost
    Mayweather - lost

    Won 5 out of 10

    Big Fights

    Hernandez - dominant
    Ruelas - dominant
    Gonzalez - dominant
    Castillijo - dominant
    Sturm - won (gift)

    5 out of 5
     
  6. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Firstly I'm playign devils advocate here

    1. No delahoya didnt fight many times at 130 but Henry Armstrong only fought twice in as many years at 126 or below too when he won his featherweight belt

    2. Chavez was an ATG, people forget in time when a fighters past prime, people dont look at the prime of Greb or Armstrongs wins. I find it hard to believe Chavez wasnt top10 P4P, he hadnt been beaten in a few years and was an excellent run of wins

    3. He did dominate the best fighters at 130/135/140 - Chavez/Gonzalez/Hernandez/Leija/Ruelas

    4. I know it was controversal but it shouldnt have been Whitaker wasn't landing anything. Notice how I score the Quartey fight to Ike, the Sturm and Mosley 2 against Delahoya I'm not nutthugging and I'm not a fan but he beat Whitaker in the 10point must system. YEs there should have been a rematch but it made Delahoya look bad and was a risk.

    5. DLH used the same rules as his opponents

    6. Almost no one in boxing would score DLH-Tito against Delahoya, which shows how bad it was. Yes I had Quartey winning.

    7. (I know:lol: ) Mosley admitted to taking Roids in 2003 because evidense was on him for that. Its likely he used them in 2000 too - this is mute though

    8. Maybe ATGs is a stretch, depends how you define ATGs. Vargas looked good in the DLH match and was on Roids himself

    9. I had Mosley winning, depends what you prefer, Delahoya outlanded him, Mosley landed cleaner, it was close

    10. Yep bad decision but DLH wasnt a middleweight.
     
  7. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    The biggest point about Delahoya is the man avoided no one. Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong, Ray Leonard, Duran, Tommy Hearns avoided a long list of fighters
     
  8. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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  9. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

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    Armstrong beat Sarron for the featherweight belt. Oscar beat Jimmy Bredahl, so he shouldn't be called a top 2 130 lb. fighter at the time.

    Chavez is nowhere to be found on the p4p list from 94-96

    http://www.boxrec.com/media/index.php/The_Ring_Magazine%27s_Annual_Ratings:_Pound_For_Pound--1990s

    But we're comparing him to Armstrong, which is why it's very different to win more titles in different weight classes in the 90s or 00s than it was in the 30s.

    I won't bother with the rest since you're playing devil's advocate anyway.
     
  10. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

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    It goes both ways.

    If you want to argue that these guys avoided fighters such as McCallum, Pryor, Nunn, Burley, etc....then you can easily argue that Oscar avoided guys like Nazarov, Forrest, Wright, Randall, and Coggi.
     
  11. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    De La Hoya is an ATG fighter, but maybe not quite top 20. Some people post threads on the general forum asking "Is De La Hoya an ATG". In my opinion thats like asking "Was Ali a great heavyweight".

    De La Hoya has won titles in five different weight divisions, and fought the very best fighters of his era. He's won some, and lost some. De La Hoya has had too many close decisions throughout his career, for and against him, to be considered an elite ATG.

    I thought the first fighter to beat him unofficially was Mosley, although Quartey probably came closest before that.
     
  12. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    147 - Pryor? - probably didnt have time to get it together
    154 - McCallum, Julian Jackson
    160/168 - Nunn/Benn/EubankBomber Graham - he didnt fight the best but got beat at 160 before he got a chance to fight the best
    175 - well he got beat before he could get going but there were plenty he didnt face
     
  13. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

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    The term "All-Time Great" is kind of broad.
     
  14. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    No because

    SRR and Armstrong avoided the top Welter of the time in Charles Burley. SRR & Armstrong could have fought the black dynamite crew. None of those fights happened.

    Hearns avoided arguably the no1 of all time at 154 in McCallum

    Delahoya fought Chavez instead of Navarov, Whitaker instead of Randall, Mosley instead of Forrest. Both Randal and Navarov amounted to little and Forrest would lose to who? A future Delahoya victim in Mayorga

    Delahoya offered Winky Wright $6m to fight him. Hardly a duck
     
  15. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    It was never seriously mooted and Tommy had upped to 154 anyway.





    He took on Hagler instead. McCallum was at Kronk and Jackson had no real great reputation at that time.



    Exactly.




    So, er, that's no one then. :good