Some Perspective About GunBoat's Win Over Langford.

There is no way to underestimate the impact of an unlevel playing field if one is honest. Some may spout their usual gibberish (and do like clockwork) but if you study human nature you can understand the impact to fighter's careers of having to take bouts on short notice, having to fight when injured, having to give up weight and fight larger men, having to fight other top, tough hungry guys time and again while getting beat for money week in week out, year in , year out. Anyone that thinks a Sam Langford moved up in weight to fight much bigger, top tier men because of personal preference is an idiot. He moved up because his career flatlined as no one would fight him. As the old ballad went ..

"Who’ll Fight Sam Langford!
(A Pugilistic Nursery Rhyme)

I.
Who’ll fight Sam Langford?
“Not I,” said Stanley K.,
“Britt has taken me away
And I’m signed to do a play.
Then I’m going to the hay.
I’ll not fight Sam Langford.”

II.
“Who’ll fight Sam Langford?
“Not I,” said Jack the Twin.
“I am careful of my chin
And I’m pretty near all in,
And suicide’s a sin.
I’ll not fight Sam Langford.”

III.
Who’ll fight Sam Langford?
“Not I,” is Papke’s wail,
“I’m a lily white and pale
And my life is not for sale;
Why I’d sooner got to jail.
I’ll not fight Sam Langford.”

IV.
Who’ll fight Sam Langford
“Not I,” said Kid McCoy;
“I’m a pretty game old boy,
But this unrefined employ
I will leave for hoi polloi.
I’ll not fight Sam Langford.”

V.
Who’ll fight Sam Langford?
“Not I,” said poor old Fitz.
“Though I’d fight for just six bits,
Still I haven’t lost my wits;
I’ll preserve my speckled mitts.
I’ll not fight Sam Langford.

VI.
Who’ll fight Sam Langford?
“Not I,” said Hugo Kelly.
“He would pound me to a jelly
And I’d lose some vermicalli.
Not for me. What ta helli?
I’ll not fight Sam Langford.”

VII.
Who’ll fight Sam Langford?
“Not I,” said Joe da Grim.
“I no like to fight with him
Cause he shutta up my glim
And da chances are too slim
I’ll notta fight Sam Langford.”

VIII.
Who’ll fight Sam Langford?
“Not I,” Al Kaufman said.
“You are crazy in the head.
Chase yourself and go to bed.
I ain’t anxious to be dead.
I’ll not fight Sam Langford.”

IX.
“Who’ll fight Sam Langford?
“Not us.” The low brows cried.”
And they turned around to hide.
“Nix: the color line is wide,
And we’re going to stay inside.
We’ll not fight Sam Langford.”

Of course spirts were crushed and men had highs and lows but to keep that spirit night after night on the highest level is not humanly possible when being forced to take the long road as most fighters do but not all equally .. it's tough to find fighters that had it harder than the great black ones at the turn of the twentieth century .. of course Sam got fat and drunk but his career impacted his condition well before his condition impacted his career .. I'll take any three top middleweights , Sam's natural weight and ask how would they have done fighting night after night against the much bigger men that Langford did .. Robinson, Monzon or even Greb who fought bigger guys but not of the caliber that Langford did .. none would have come close .. ask Kid Norfolk ..

 

If you look at the photos of him at 175 to 180 he was not cut or tight .. if you look at the photos of him in his 20's he was below 160 and looked it .. he went up for the money because he was ducked at the money at 160 .. at 180 Langford had the build of a soccer dad .. over that he was fat, period .. he did not move up like Holyfield or Haye .. more like Toney.

 

DO we have to keep regurgitating the same points ? .. he may have accomplished his best work at 175 but that was because he moved out of his natural weight to get fights w men that would fight him. That does not mean that 175 was his best weight .. he was 156 for Jack Johnson at age 23 .. he early could have stayed there for years .. look at the photos of his at 175, he was not close to the cut, ripped guy he was at lighter weights. AS far as who ducked him, do your homework.

 

I agree with the middleweight part. Sam grew out of that division.

I have Langford's work out clips. For the USA based posters, he looks like a short NFL Running back. Langford wasn't small; a better word is very compact.

Where I think Clay is mistaken is Sam performed exceptionally well at 185 3/4 pounds beating a prime Jeannette from pillar to post on the film, which word is well above 175 and 5+ pounds north of 180. If there was a lot of money at light heavyweight, Langford could win there, or he can win at heavyweight.

With his style power and durability, giving up 30 pounds for Langford was no big deal.

Jack Johnson won his title at 190 pounds. Dempsey, below 190 pounds, so Sam Langford was not too small for the times at 185 3/4. He was in fact a giant killer stopping hall of fame fighters north of where Johnson weighed in most of his title matches in Wills, McVey, and Godfrey.

 

I only wrote facts, if you don't want to read them or see the board educated perhaps on things they aren't aware of, don't ask. I guess details can be poison for you.

You make a big deal of Langford being 185, yet some of the guys that Johnson himself had trouble with boxers under 185 pounds, and none of them hit nearly as hard as Sam. Can you see the double standard here?

If you have new info on GunBoat, by all means post it here. IMO, Gunboat deserves a title shot from Johnson, so if we are to talk about him, Johnson's name has to come up.

 

Tell me something I don't know. Burns was 168 pounds and according to the author of a book on him and boxing historian Kevin Smith an expert on early black prizefighters, had a Jaundice like illness.

In hindsight, Burns was better off at 175.

I do think Burns is Johnson's top win on his resume and best performance on film.

In my opinion, Langford would have beaten the same Burns sooner.

Sam Mcvey was the initial pick for Burns. That could have been a good one.