Some say the blueprint to beating Tyson was fighting like Tillis did. Would Ali have beaten Tyson?

Anyone hit with the shots Frazier got hit with is going down. No question. The question is, who's getting up? Not Tyson.

 

But Tyson will not go down, certainly not before round 8, 9, 10, 11 as his numerous bouts have proven. Razor Ruddock who was the hardest puncher of the era could not drop him so yes unlike Frazier Tyson's defence will be too good for Foreman who will get discouraged

 

Such as the Mcbride and Williams fights?

Wrong

I know imagine someone like Douglas dropping him

Wrong again. Frazier was much harder to hit that Tyson.

Is that why Tyson ducked him?

 

You should watch the fight! Frazier comes roaring back after 2 knockdown to win his 12th pro fight against an experienced future Hall of Famer on the rise who Nat Fleischer called, "The most powerful fighter I have ever seen! " A pretty good testament to his chin!
By the way, Tyson's 12th fight was against Eddie Richardson who would go on to accruing a 14-24 record! This was a step up for Mike, his previous opponent hadn't won a fight in 7 years.

 

What a condescending remark. You should do some research before making smug remarks like a dikkhead.

For instance, Tyson's 20th fight against James Tillis occurred when he was a pro for 1 year and 2 months. Frazier's 12th bout occurred when he was a pro for 1 year and 1 month. That means Tyson fought 8 more times than Frazier did when they were professional boxers for 1 whole year.

So at the same time Frazier was getting bounced around against Fleischer's pick for powerful He-Men, Tyson was handily beating seasoned world title challengers who were better than crude, slow brawling men that gave Frazier problems over 10 rounds without breaking a sweat.

 

There are plenty of cases of people getting knocked out very early career but being entirely different propositions later.

 

What it shows is that Tyson isn't likely to be stopping people around that point, particularly ATG's.

Tyson's doesn't fold late stamina wise but he folded twice to be knocked out later in fights. If fights with guys like Ali and Holmes get to the latter rounds Tyson is the one more likely to be folding.

 

Boxing is littered with fighters being better on paper getting pole axed or faring worse against fighters supposed lesser fighters had done better against. This is boxing.

Norton was a terror vs boxers whose power didn't rate above quite good. Between his style, assets and Futchs insane insight he was a terror for them.

Frazier is similar.

Neither of these beat pre exile Ali whom i consider peak Ali.

None of Tysons supposed advantages over these two mean he beats either pre exile or post exile Ali.

 

I think you and i were watching different fights per Holmes - Tyson.

Holmes was 100% retired in 86. I don't remember any real talk of them fighting.

Prime Holmes may or may not have defeated Tyson. It is debatable either way. Peak Ali would be a definite favorite over him.

Having a purpose doesn't mean you can get it done. Millions who had purpose have failed.

 

Others might say they are tired of hearing how Tyson's win over a faded Holmes shows he would beat peak Ali.

It doesn't. Not even a little.

 

I am confident the irony of you calling my remark is lost on you. The discussion was about your claim that Frazier had an inferior chin as evidenced by being knocked down by Oscar Bonavena. I am pointing out that Frazier in only his 12th fight came off the canvas to defeat a seasoned Hall of Famer whose calling card was his strength! Perhaps, his chin was pretty good.

Then in the nonpersonal attack portion of your reply you take a left turn claiming the number of fights is not the relevant measure of experience but is instead the time since turning professional! Your "gotcha point" is Tyson at the same point in his career was getting his chin tested by Quick Tillis?

Quick Tillis who had not won a fight against a fighter with a winning record in over 2 years?! Bonavena was fresh off a victory his victory over George Chuvalo who had faced Ali for Heavyweight Title as the number 3 contender 3 months earlier!

Tillis had not been ranked in the Top 10 in 5 years prior to facing Tyson, Bonavena was ranked 7th the year he faced Frazier! Tillis was never ranked higher than 8th! Bonavena would later be found ranked as high as 3rd or 4th!

Nevermind that Bonavena's knockout percentage was about 50% higher!

 

Hmmmm Frazier not only won the next round but the whole damn fight!

 

Holmes doesn't even apear in '86, 87', or '88 Annual Rankings!

 

Exactly. He was a shell of his best by the Bonecrusher fight in 84 and was ordinary vs Bey and Williams just after. He was actually declining by the Witherspoon fight in 83.

i am anything but a Holmes nuthugger and i also don't hate on Tyson. I am just presenting the facts.

You can't say he was "shot" as he beat Mercer and performed well vs McCall. In his case he simply maintained a decent level (miles below his greatest) for a long time and performed ok. Joe Louis was similar. They dropped miles below their best but then maintained that level for some time. Against the opposition they fought this level proved reasonably successful. When it came to the top dogs they failed. They could still hang with certain contenders tho.

 

You realize getting knocked down in the first place doesn't prove anything good particularly without getting hit alot right? Getting knocked down twice in the same round pretty much tells your corner men to stay away from punchers and that's what team Frazier did up until Foreman.

Tyson was sparring guys like Carl Williams at age 15 , Tyson could've fought Bonevena in his first 5 fights and would've crushed him.

If you are suggesting Frazier's chin is better you are sadly mistaken at the highest level .