Some say the blueprint to beating Tyson was fighting like Tillis did. Would Ali have beaten Tyson?

Agreed. Holmes was past prime well prior tho.

 

He's given plenty of credit in his second career, that does not take away from the fact he was over the hill.

I would agree Tyson ko'ing him when others didn't has some significance. It's no guarantee he would do it peak for peak tho.

Over the years i have come around to thinking Tyson would stop him, but it's far from cut and dried.

 

Norton had a totally different style that bothered Ali. Frazier also did some things better than any version of Tyson. For example he took punishment better, Joe could get peppered consistently and still fight his fight. He also worked that left hook overtime. That was Ali`s kryptonite. He had trouble defending against that good in close lefthook. Frazier fought inside better and he certainly had better stamina. He was able to apply pressure to Ali round after round not letting him breathe or rest. Not saying Tyson isn't a threat to Ali ofcourse he is because he was explosive especially early in fights. I think many of us see Ali weathering that storm though.

 

Frazier does the above better because he needed to. Tyson doesn't. And by all means, if Tyson needed to work inside he would. Watch his early championship battles in 87-88, especially the Tubbs fight. He had to find a way to deal with all the holding and tying up tactics employed by Bonecrusher, Thomas and Tucker. Against Tubbs he was getting peppered with jabs and right crosses the entire first round. He adapts, cuts Tubbs off and closes the show - on the inside.

Frazier absorbed more punishment because his defense wasn't as good as Tyson's.

 

He needed to do it against Buster Douglas but he certainly didn't. Unlike Smokin Joe Frazier Tyson`s punch output dropped, he tightened up and started to lean, throwing one or two big shots then posing. Ali would make Tyson work, frustrate him. There is just no evidence that Tyson could grind down a boxer of Ali`s caliber. Ali is not going to get taken out early. He could be hurt maybe even down but Ali had a great chin/recovery.

I will say Tyson had a good chin. He could take one big shot here and there but when he was getting peppered on a consistent basis he lost his confidence in a hurry. Ali would not load up but he would touch Tyson every round with his jab and cross.

 

Tyson knocks Ali out in 9.

 

Ok

 

Ali did not punch anywhere near as hard as Lennox Lewis, George Foreman. We saw what happened to Joe Frazier when he got in the ring with Foreman. In Contrast we saw how long it took to stop Tyson against Douglas, Holyfield, Lewis (whose right hand and upper cuts could be compared to Foreman's power) and the punishment Tyson took in the Ruddock wars (who also had Foreman type power). I strongly disagree that Frazier had a better chin than Tyson, heart can be debated but a prime Tyson had very good stamina and i know for a fact that Tyson was a better finisher than Frazier so if Tyson has anyone in trouble including the great Ali, he will not let him off the hook and the proof of this is in the pudding i.e. when Tyson is the only guy to knock out the great Larry Holmes who had been dropped many times in his career but had legendary recuperating powers, it has to be noted down as a significant fact

 

You are confusing lack of conditioning with lack of confidence. No amount of confidence in the world can compensate for a lack of condition and punchers and short armed, short height inside fighters need a lot of it.

 

Holmes was past his prime, but over the hill debatable but i will concede sure, absolutely shot, no way in hell. That win should not be discredited at all against Tyson. Holmes had a fighting boxer mover punching style which allowed for a longer career as historical evidence shows compared to a swarmer like Tyson who has a much shorter shelf life.

 

Is this the fight that you point to that makes you believe Tyson would blow out a prime Ali?

 

Tyson was 23 years old and he weighed in at 220lbs that night in Tokyo. If he was not in his best condition he wasn't that far from of it. He was in good enough shape he could've won the fight if he had the confidence and ability that you are gifting him. If it was just a matter of conditioning why was he getting peppered with Douglas`s jab and cross from the very first round? Where were these mythical defensive skills?

Almost every fighter has excuses after they lose its just that with Tyson`s fans their taken as Gospel. Same thing with Ali`s fans. There`s probably more proof that Joe Frazier was past his best when he faced Foreman yet you referenced that fight. I guess Joe doesn't have that luxery.

 

You can have a 6 pack and still not have the conditioning, stamina to throw high velocity punches, to box for 12 rounds. Tyson apparently arrived in Tokyo weighing in at 248 and starved himself to get down to 220 lbs by fight night. The Peeka Style requires immense conditioning. You clearly have to contrast Tyson's fight from 85-88 and that night in Tokyo to understand that he didn't have good stamina and arrived very over confidently expecting a first round KO.

 

Not really. My view is that if Tyson fails to KO Ali in the first 4 rounds then the fight will heavily favor Ali. But if Tyson has Ali hurt at any stage, he will finish him off. Larry Holmes was an Ali like fighter and had never ever been KO'd before during his prime, outside his prime and when he was shot and the fact that Tyson is the only fighter in history to comprehensively KO him means something. So yes if Tyson can KO Larry Holmes, he has the ability to KO and finish Ali the moment he has him in trouble.