Some Takedown Defense Techniques From Frank Shamrock; Potentially Suited for Boxers?

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by Bogotazo, Sep 3, 2011.


  1. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Hi guys, just wanted to ask what you thought about the instructions given by Shamrock in this video, and my own reflections on whether or not they may be suitable for a boxer when competing against a fighter of multiple schools.

    Now, I'm primarily a boxing fan and prefer it many times over to MMA, but I respect the various disciplines of MMA and watch it casually, since the science of fighting is something I've always enjoyed observing closely. I don't have some huge beef with MMA as a sport itself. Whenever the two are pitted against each other in a competitive way and numerous posters theorize about the potential match-ups between the two, I often find myself wondering what fundamental skills (as boxing is not just a skill but a collection of skills) and stylistic elements boxers would work to their advantage when making a transition into MMA with a boxing base. I apologize in advance for anyone who is sick of hearing about the two competing in hypothetical cross-competing scenarios, but I'm merely interested in the technical points.

    (Like in this thread here http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=216996&highlight=Damage)


    Now that that's out of the way, my questions for you guys stem from this video I was watching, in which the famous Frank Shamrock outlines a number of techniques in avoiding a take-down, and the dynamics of fighting in anticipation of one. To my surprise, the base of his introduction was not founded in sprawling, but in avoiding take-downs with pivots, rotating angles, and fleet footwork that is commonly found among fundamentally sound boxers. His stance was even angled more than I often read is recommended when competing MMA, and he often said things like "it's just like in boxing/striking". He even jabs to the head to prevent the initiation of a take-down in the first place. Again, much more related to boxing than I had anticipated.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDnnmENhJp4[/ame]

    Now, clearly there is a lot to defending a take-down, grappling, wrestling, etc. that isn't found in boxing. This is obvious. But my question to you is, from a boxing standpoint, is it feasible to train oneself to use this first line of movement-based defense against a wrestler in MMA with the precision of a boxer's footwork? Is this a previously unexplored route towards controlling the distance and setting up a deadly striking offensive? Given the footage, could boxers feasibly use angles to nullify alignment necessary for a wrestler or grappler to simply have his way with a fighter dependent on his hands?

    Any real life or on-tape experiences are appreciated. Please engage the video and consider my points carefully without dismissing them as the same old argument, because I have personally never seen such boxing-oriented techniques advocated as the first line of defense against a take-down.
     
  2. sugarngold

    sugarngold RIDDUM Full Member

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    There's a really simple tip that Bas Rutten gives to guys that are primarily strikers like boxers or kickboxers and that is to add a sprawl to every mitt drill so you always end with a sprawl.
     
  3. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Oct 17, 2009

    Interesting point, thanks for that.
     
  4. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Anyone else care to join? I would have expected MMA and Boxing fans to find these technical points interesting to some degree. I just thought I'd share since it's nothing I'd ever seen before, personally.
     
  5. James23

    James23 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "Avoiding Takedown is Simple"

    No, it's not.
     
  6. greathamza

    greathamza Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You just need to get a hang of it like JDS
     
  7. James23

    James23 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well, ****, if it's that easy I'll be boxing like Pacquaio, grappling like Marcelo Garcia and be a champion like Anderson Silva in no time at all! I just gotta "get a hang of it". No problem at all.
     
  8. Ai-edy2007

    Ai-edy2007 STOCKTON 209 MOTHER****ER Full Member

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  9. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    I think we can all agree it's not "simple."
     
  10. achillesthegreat

    achillesthegreat FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE Full Member

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    Shamrock is 100% right. First line of defence is footwork and punching. However, often boxers lack the confidence to stay in range for fear of a takedown. When I say boxers, I even mean MMA who use boxing or striking as their base. Strikers, too often, stay out of striking range for their own safety but obviously their safety means they are out of range to inflict any damage.
     
  11. rokurota

    rokurota Member Full Member

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    you need to train very hard to be able to stop a good wrestler or judoka from putting you on your ass.
     
  12. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    That's a good point. Do you think it is similar to boxing, where being afraid to get hit makes getting hit all the more probable (except with take-down dynamics)?
     
  13. The Spider

    The Spider Guest

    James Toney should be watching this vid.
     
  14. achillesthegreat

    achillesthegreat FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE Full Member

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    At this level, I'm a strong believer in the mind deciding fights. When I watch something like Silva vs Okami, I think Silva is amazing but I also recognise that Okami lost it all on his own as he didn't really want to be there or go down trying. Fighters pick up on such negativity. So yes, if a striker was not engaging then it gives the other fighter reason and more confidence to go and take him down or take him out. Sometimes a fighter may look like he is not engaging etc but then takes a guy clean out. This can be a strategy but it tends to just be a weak mind.
     
  15. Caestus

    Caestus Active Member Full Member

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    Crocop did that a lot.