Someone tell me...How good was Rickson Gracie

They say a picture is worth a thousand words so we'll let these videos do the talking for Rickson Gracie.

The first video contains ultra rare footage of what is possibly the greatest jiujitsu match of all time - Rickson Gracie vs arch-rival Rigan Machado.

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The second is Rickson Gracie in the Choke documentary.

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One doesn't ask how good Rickson is at jiujitsu. Rickson IS jiujitsu.

 

Overrated and Overhyped...Never met a decent opponent. His best achievement was his first fight against Zulu, that was only a good fighter....The guys he beat in Pride and Japan Open were ridiculous...Takada???? lol

 

Currently underrated. Master of his family's art. Rickson isn't just better than most at BJJ. Rickson is better at BJJ than most will ever be at anything. Think Bobby Fischer... or Michael Jordan

 

Put it this way, I saw Rickson choke out Darth Vader before Vader could get the mind control thing going. Luke lost a hand trying to do that.

 

Sorry Rickson fans, but his cartel is medíocre. He was obviously powerful and talented but, apart Zulu (by the way, only a good fighter...), he never matched a decent opponent. Why the hell he fought the ridiculous Takada twice???
His alleged 400 amador fights were a myth disputed by Hélio Gracie himself... Take a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNy1oEk47_g

 

Not good enough to take on prime Saku.

 

Rickson's hype is much deserved. He can be argued as the greatest bjj practitioner ever. If you're trying to question his mma record, that is a different issue. Rickson is undefeated, but there isn't a lot to his mma resume in terms of great opponents. Rickson had already proven himself before the rise of the UFC and mixed martial arts. Hell, he was 41 years old in his last fight.

Rickson's style wasn't really suited for today's mma rule set. Rickson is made for a lesser rules setting, where he only has to close the distance once. No time periods. No referee separations. Watch his fight with Funaki. Rickson closes the distance, and holds Funaki against the ropes for nearly 4 mins before the fight goes to the ground. That fight would have been interrupted after 20-30 seconds if it happened today.

Rickson's 400 wins are not 400 mma style wins. Rickson is counting every competition he has been involved in from bjj tournatments, to judo tournaments, to sambo tournaements, as well as his 11 mma fights...not to mention his beach fight with Hugo Duarte and whatever sort of challenger that showed up at his school.

However, we all can go back to UFC I, and see just how effective bjj was as a fighting system. It revolutionized the martial arts world. It was clear that bjj was superior to any style around, and in order to win against a bjj practitioner; you would have to learn aspects of the art. Royce was the center of attention, and he wasn't nearly as good as his older brother. By that time, Rickson had already defeated anyone that could claim to be someone on the bjj scene, and he defeated all of them by submission.

Rickson is a legend, and rightfully so.

 

His MMA record is beyond ridiculous.

 

You are almost right. His overall record is beyond ridiculous. There isn't a fighter like him ever. Rickson took on anyone that was anyone in his time, and he won by submission every time. No matter the discipline. Be it judo...bjj...sambo...mma...everyone tapped or went to sleep.

 

In BJJ, not at all.

In MMA, I've never heard anyone really overhype him. Most realize that by the time Pride/UFC became super popular he was over 40 and then his son died and he stopped competing.

Even Rickson will say that the best in the family was Rolls Gracie. He was the person who brought in American wrestlers and learned from them and studied Judo to get a BB to learn from them as well.

Comparing Rickson's short MMA career and who he fought and looking at how far the game is come and looking at it again in hindsight is a disservice to Rickson's long and distinguised BJJ career. Also, fighting in legitimate NHB fights where he would just fight somebody who showed up at the school.

 

Funny, I just watched Hickson's documentary (Choke) and here is a thread about him. I never come in here, either. Weird.

Anyways, yeah. I was lurking on Sherdog where a similar topic came up, and the responses varied from "the best" to "fought a bunch of cans and got out before MMA became really professional."

I'm no expert at MMA at all, but I found his documentary very interesting. Very cool customer, very relaxed. You can see he was very self-assured, yet not too full of himself to admit that he was scared in every fight.
It's funny, but he (and Royce too) don't strike me as really great athletes. There is nothing to make you jump up and go 'wow'.

But he has that quality that I admire most in a fighter - composure. Never got rattled, never got flustered. I think his vast experience counted a lot towards that, and his naturally calm demeanour.

 

hmmmmm
Can you tell us the name of a judoka he fought??? MMA? Like i said before, he never fought a great fighter in MMA. Zulu, Takada? No Comments...Sambo? Have you ever heard about his fight with Ron Tripp?

 

Are there any judoka's with a claim over Rickson?

Rickson's legend was made before modern mma, so..............

There is no one with a claim over Rickson outside of Ron Tripp. Tripp threw Rickson in a Sambo match. A match that declared instant victory if you were thrown in the manner Rickson was. There was no ko, submission, or decision loss. It was simply a throw.

I guess there is something in your brain that isn't allowing you to understand the time frame. Royce showed that bjj was superior to any other fighting style in the early UFCs. Rickson was better than Royce by leaps and bounds. Royce was chosen to represent the art for 2 reasons. One was looks. Royce is lesser assuming as a fighter than some in his family. If a guy that looks like Royce is defeating opponents, then it must be the style. Rickson had also started teaching outside of the academy, and was being punished for doing so.

Royce showed the world the effectiveness of bjj, and that a fighter had little chance of succeeding without learning the art. Rickson had already established himself as the best in his family at this point. Rickson was better at bjj than everyone, and the chances of beating a bjj fighter were slim and none in 1993. This is your point of reference. Not taking someone from their time line and placing them into a different rule set all together.

Rigan Machado is a world renowned bjj instructor. He once held a BJJ Tournament record of 365 wins to only 2 defeats. Guess who beat him....both losses by submission...Rickson.

There is also no video to suggest that Rickson would be in trouble against any fighter once the fight hit the ground. Rickson won all of his famous bouts by submission.

 

"Are there any judoka's with a claim over Rickson?"

Again: Tell us the name of a judoka Rickson defeated in his reported 400 amador fights...After all, isn't it a Rickson's claim????


"A match that declared instant victory if you were thrown in the manner Rickson was."

So do you agree Rickson was defeated in a amador fighter, don't you?


"Rickson won all of his famous bouts by submission."


Against mediocre opposition, you "forgot" to add... That's my point and I repeat: his MMA record is tiny...

 

What the **** is an amador fight? A love fight? I have no idea what that is. I don't know how many judokas Rickson has submitted. Rickson has trained with the Brazilian national judo team. You can go online and see Rickson roll with, and submit several times, Hayward Nishioka. I don't know if you can give a lot of credit for that, as Nishioka was 20 years past his competition days at that point.

Rickson lost that fight. He can claim he didn't know the rules all he wants. It wasn't a real fight, and he wasn't ko'd or submitted. He's been in numerous Sambo events, so I'm sure he knew the rules. He was tossed, and lost.

It was not mediocre opposition. Again, you are talking mma wins. I've never once argued his mma credentials. I'm speaking of his bjj achievements. Rickson is a BJJ Legend. All of the legendary stories surrounding him are about his grasp of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I don't give a **** about his mma career. Royce's stats are better. When Rickson competed in Brazil's bjj tournaments, against the best of the best, he always won by submission. Rickson defeated anyone that was thought capable of rivaling him in bjj by submission.