Something interesting about Ali's opposition

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Glass City Cobra, Feb 3, 2019.



  1. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    So wait, marciano wasnt a volume puncher? He wasnt 5'10 with short arms and good power? He didnt stalk his opponents and bang away at the body to tire them out and open them up? He didnt have a good chin and tons of stamina? There isnt anything Marciano and Frazier had in common and comparing them is like comparing a steak to a banana?

    Maybe I'm wrong and marciano was actually a tall stick and move fighter with a glass jaw.
     
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  2. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Thing is, i already addressed all that on my post! I made sure to point out the similarities AND the differences for each section. Obviously Wladmir Klitschko was a more accomplished boxer and hit harder than Ernie Terrel, I think some people are taking my post far too literally.
     
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  3. Jackomano

    Jackomano Boxing Addict Full Member

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    This. Frazier was one of my favorite fighters, but he was never as consistent or as relentless as Marciano was and Liston wasn't even close to being half the Fighter Joe Louis was in his prime. Mercer is another fighter that I like, but comparing him to Foreman is a huge leap.
     
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  4. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Joe Louis begs to differ!!!:nonono:nonono:nonono
     
  5. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    To be fair my post was hella synacle, my bad.
     
  6. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Honesty, the claim that joe is better than ali is a little strange because it hinges on sheer longevity to make up for lack of quality opponents. Like Bill Russel vs michael Jordan. Now in terms of skill or h2h discussions you can DEFINITELY make a strong argument, but as far as opposition goes joe just doesnt compare to Ali.

    A lion slaughtering 50 antelopes will never top a lion taking down a rhino.
     
  7. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Consistent? Frazier consistently faced the best opposition available. In the ring he was a relentless pressure fighter and never backed off even after getting badly hurt or dropped. Where on earth are you basing this from? You must not be micu of a frazier fan because he had as much heart as anyone.

    Never said liston was as skilled as louis but he was no slouch. He had underrated ring generalship, a powerful jab, a GREAT finisher, and was just as fierce and nasty as joe and hit even harder. Youre acting like Joe and Liston were in different stratospheres. If they fought there's no guarrantee Louis hears the final bell, let alone winning. It would be a war.
     
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  8. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders NSB defector Full Member

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    Despite all the efforts you put in a strawman, it remains a strawman.
     
  9. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I didnt make a straw man at all. Where's the lie? By all means explain how im wrong and im way off in assessing marciano's physical dimensions, abilities, and strategy compared to frazier. Are there differences between them? Obviously. If anyone's making a straw man its you. in my opening post i even pointed out some of the differences. The point was never to claim Ali's opponents were literally the same as other champions. Basic reading comprehension.

    If you cant be bothered to actually respond to what i wrote or you dont want to explain your position then simply say so. Just write "I disagree" and move on. Im not here to go back and forth over petty stuff, im not your girlfriend.
     
  10. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Actually, lions in the wild tend to avoid mature rhino's due to the danger of taking one down. So they go after easier prey like antelopes. Lions would have to get extremely hungry and desperate to take on a mature rhino.
     
  11. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    That was my point.

    Ali's opponents were more dangerous than the vast majority of Louis'.
     
  12. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Have to disagree on both counts. Marciano seems more consistent since he stayed at the top for a shorter time. If Joe had retired after FOTC, he would have been fighting world class opposition for about as long as Rocky did and would have been seen as super consistent.

    As for Louis and Liston, Louis of course dominated for much longer, but I don't think he necessarily had a better five straight years than Liston had 1959-1963. He was no Buster Douglas or even Bowe. He had half a decade of just blowing through contenders. It came to an end against Ali, but many reigns would have.
     
  13. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I mean, most if not all of Ali's 60's opponents were on the level of men that Louis fought. Frazier and Foreman, though great victories, are the only 2 I can think of that are above the calibur that Louis fought and beat. And it isn't far fetched that Louis could beat Frazier and Foreman, too.
     
  14. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Youre forgetting a prime ken Norton, Ellis, Patterson, bugner, Lyle, Bonavena, etc. All men who were athletic young and fit to go 12 and didnt have 20+ losses on their records like many louis' opponents.

    Norton alone is a better win and more skilled than anyone louis beat except Walcott and even that's debatable.
     
  15. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Active Member Full Member

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    Fewer losses is due to careful management and fighting less frequently. Norton's inability to handle punchers badly hurts his legacy. He was a problem for guys without a big punch but not bangers.
     

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