Something interesting about Ali's opposition

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Glass City Cobra, Feb 3, 2019.


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  1. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He was dominating because of what he actually did. How you hypothetically think he'd do against certain opponents carries less weight, at least for me.

    You might as well say that Holy could beat Tyson as far back as 1988, so how could Tyson ever been seen as dominant.
     
    Bokaj, Feb 12, 2019
    Bokaj, Feb 12, 2019
    #46
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  2. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Well you might be able to make an argument for Max Baer over Frazier
     
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Feb 12, 2019
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Feb 12, 2019
    #47
  3. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    Go ahead. I keep seeing people making bold claims but never breaking things down.
     
    Glass City Cobra, Feb 13, 2019
    Glass City Cobra, Feb 13, 2019
    #48
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  4. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I wasn't really wholly doubting your assertion it was a legitimate question.
    Looking at who he beat again I tend to agree with you, it's just that when talking about Frazier's career at that time people hardly mention him as cleaning out the division.
    It's probably because legacy wise he's been largely defined by three fights the F.O.C., the Thrilla and the Foreman fight.
    His record up to the F.O.C. is a little bit ignored which is unfair.
     
    Cecil, Feb 13, 2019
    Cecil, Feb 13, 2019
    #49
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  5. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Foreman was ranked top 5 in 1970, given how their 1973 fight panned out the reasonable conclusion is Foreman beats him easily.
     
    Cojimar 1946, Feb 13, 2019
    Cojimar 1946, Feb 13, 2019
    #50
  6. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Bowe had just knocked out Holyfield when he fought Golota. How is he washed up? Was he washed up in his previous fight when he stopped Holyfield? The timing seems a little too convenient.
     
    Cojimar 1946, Feb 13, 2019
    Cojimar 1946, Feb 13, 2019
    #51
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    mcvey, Feb 13, 2019
    mcvey, Feb 13, 2019
    #52
  8. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Frazier was the favorite going in to FOTC. Heavy favorite among the experts if I'm not mistaken. So he was clearly highly regarded at the time.
     
    Bokaj, Feb 13, 2019
    Bokaj, Feb 13, 2019
    #53
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  9. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    Did you WATCH the golota fights? Clearly you didnt because bowe was nearly 15 lbs overweight (his prime weight was 235 when he won the title) flabby, had poor stamina, etc. He didnt have a lot of sharpness or coordination in his punches. Maybe he wasnt "washed up" but he clearly wasnt in his best condition.

    To top it off Golota kept throwing deliberate low blows abd got points deducted twice but he kept throwing them anyway! Wether golota could have beqten bowe we'll never know because golota was crazy.

    As for bowe knocking out holyfield in his previous fight, holyfield was 33 and pretty shopworn from all his wars. He said he wanted to retire the previous year and had health problems and hepatitis. Holyfield is known for having incredible stamina and workate but he was gassed after a couple rounds. Does that sound like holyfield to you? Beating THAT version of holyfield isnt proof that bowe was still at his best.

    Now coljimar id like to know, who are your top 10 heavyweights of all time? Please dont duck the question.
     
    Glass City Cobra, Feb 13, 2019
    Glass City Cobra, Feb 13, 2019
    #54
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  10. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Sting like a bean, Feb 13, 2019
    Sting like a bean, Feb 13, 2019
    #55
  11. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Just the styles...Baer was a murderous puncher, perhaps as hard as Foreman and would land something and Frazier tended to take a few rounds to get warmed up. I guess it would all come down to what happens when Max lands on Frazier.
     
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Feb 13, 2019
    InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Feb 13, 2019
    #56
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Urtain was a musclebound rock lifting Basque.
    Good puncher, terrible boxer.

    This content is protected
     
    mcvey, Feb 13, 2019
    mcvey, Feb 13, 2019
    #57
  13. Sting like a bean

    Sting like a bean Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Oh, I do kind of know who that is actually. I just didn't recognize the name. I vaguely recall one of his opponents (or maybe a trainer) claiming he was the physically strongest fighter he'd ever met.
     
    Sting like a bean, Feb 13, 2019
    Sting like a bean, Feb 13, 2019
    #58
  14. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    Im not denying max baer's power. He had a good chin too and if he comes out swinging early he could give frazier serious problems.

    That wasnt my point. My point was, based on resume and their actual on screen performances (not to mention frazier's incredible conditioning and heart and max baer's lack in both areas) would you FAVOR Baer over a prime Frazier? What do you think the odds would be...?
     
    Glass City Cobra, Feb 13, 2019
    Glass City Cobra, Feb 13, 2019
    #59
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I wouldn't myself.
     
    mcvey, Feb 13, 2019
    mcvey, Feb 13, 2019
    #60
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