Something to consider about Andre Ward

Again, both guys have huge egos. But as yet, GG hasn't fought a guy who's even close to elite level.

 

I agree with most of what you have said in this thread with the exception of this last paragraph.

I think they need/don't need each other just about the same amount.

You've made the classic mistake of viewing things from a boxing fans perspective (not a criticism, this is the preferred position, rather than these 'fans' who act as if they are on their favourite fighters payroll and lack any objectivity).

GGG needs Ward for legacy and to add a top name to his resume, Ward needs GGG to bring a crowd and make it financially viable.

I think both realise that and hence why they aren't shy about mentioning each others names in interviews. Keeps things marinading in case of a a future fight.

The stumbling block seems like it might be how much longer Andre can make 168 (where I believe the fight would happen IF it did) as GGG wants to clean 160 first and Ward needs to get back out there and knock off the rust so would be 12-18 months away.

If he doesn't think he can stay at 168 for that long I think Ward will move to 175 and look to fight Kov in 2-3 fights time. Obviously he is trying to rush to get GGG in the ring first as whilst the money for the 2 fights might be roughly comparable he will be much more likely to win against GGG (I would say ~70/30 in Ward's favour as opposed to about 50/50 or even slight edge to Kovalev)

 

I think Ward/Kovalev is a better event and will be proven to be so, if and when the fight comes off. Kovalev can bring good numbers, which I think would significantly exceed anything Golovkin could bring with him. Ergo, at this point in time, Ward does not really need Golovkin, as much as Golovkin needs Ward.

 

You might be right, but I'm not convinced. GGG seems to be getting the big push from HBO and has taken a first (admittedly not runaway success) step on to the PPV ladder and had news worthy live ticket sales for his last fight.

Either way my point is more that even if Ward stood to make slightly more vs Kovalev, its not enough extra (IMO) to the point where it would negate the extra risk in fighting Kovalev.

Plus if he can get GGG in the ring relatively soon he would probably win that and then still be able to move up for Kov. If he moves up now he a) might lose and b) won't be coming back down in weight, so a GGG fight would be gone, at least for a few years while he waits to see if GGG moves up the weights successfully.

 

Ward doesn't care how he looks in people's eyes in or outside the ring. As a result, nobody wants to watch him.

 

I'm not entirely certain but I think I'd heard that Kovalev/Pascal did over a million views. That's a good portent for a potential Ward/Kovalev showdown. Golovkin will need his own showdown with the Cotto/Alvarez winner, in order to boost his exposure.

There is also one component of this you seem to be omitting and that is the value add to Ward's legacy of a Kovalev bout. As you suggest, Ward would be taking on a risk in fighting Kovalev and wouldn't this then surely earn him plenty of legacy-massaging kudos - win or lose?

He'd be going up a division to challenge the bigger Krusher! It just has much more pop to it in later overall standing, than a win over Golovkin, I think.

And, on the subject of going up and down in weight, I am not sure at which weight you think a Ward/Golovkin bout would be contested, if it were to happen now, but, I understand that it would mean GGG going up to 168, in any event.

 

Yeah I said in one of my earlier posts, Ward/GGG would be at 168, otherwise it loses much of its lustre (for me). :thumbsup

I'm not omitting the legacy factor, though in my cynicism I may be under valuing it slightly.

That angle works for me and you and other reasonably minded boxing fans. I'm not so sure it will carry much weight with promoters/networks, future opponents etc. We also know there are plenty of biased agenda driven fools on here that couldn't wait to call the losing fighter in any of these scenarios a bum and use it for their race/nationality based trolling.

To be real also, Ward hasn't shown himself to be a great risk taker thus far has he. The biggest risk he has taken is entering the Super 6, but even then he was young/green enough to come again and somehow got to fight every round in his homeland.

Since then he has talked/priced himself out of a Unification with Bute, in to a long running contract dispute with his former promoter and demanded too much money for the level of opponent he was willing to face. With the exception of the ghost of Dawson who was stupid enough to talk himself into fighting at a weight he couldn't safely make.

I don't see him moving up unless he is sure he can't get the easier fight first within the timeframe that works for him. Which is fair enough, no problem with that in the same way I have no problem with GGG wanting finish his business at 160 first. As a fan I'd rather see them face each other but I won't criticise either man for doing whats best for them. I prefer instead to give extra praise to fighters when they do seek out the bigger challenges

 

Kovalev is no bigger than Ward. Naturally, they are the same size. Ward has always been big for SMW, but was able to cut weight.

 

Yep - Fair points. The 'Ward Inactivity Saga' needs to come to an end and soon. This is probably why, in my optimism, I see a Ward/Kovalev bout as an answer to several questions surrounding Ward's attitude, actions and abilities. I am not averse to him testing the waters out at 175 but, if it begins to look like there's little chance of Ward taking on the best, whatever the division/weight, then that optimism I mention will surely fade.

At the same time, I'd like to see Golovkin just, once and for all, clear the decks of 160. It's long overdue and Golovkin deserves that undisputed mantle, while being the one to dispose of the 'pretend middleweights'.

 

:roll:

 

Absolutely agree, hopefully we get to see at least some of the fights we are talking about here. :thumbsup

Anyway, we seem to have hijacked this thread with actual boxing talk and as a result no-one else is posting here now.

Here you go trolls, I'll give you a couple of options to start off with lets get things back on track.

"Lol Triple Gay Bum-loverkin wud never fight anyone who has both eyes AND 2 arms, he doesn't desrve sh!t. his entire amateur and pro career are a joke, everyone he has fought cherry picked their way to being world level operators and all he did was expose how much of a bum they really were all along.

He should fight heavyweights for free to prove he can hang with 'dre. Too slick and non-white for lil G"

Or

"And-roid SOB Ward is trying to pick on smaller fighters, he always has to have it his own way. He wants GGG to fight him in Ward's actual house for 0.001% of the purse with roc nation as judges and ref and GGG isn't allowed to throw punches.

Apparently he loses excess weight before his weigh-ins then puts it back on before the fight!:admin Blatant cheating! And he was once hurt by a punch to the face from a professional boxer lol. what a loser"

 

Smaller how?

 

Smaller by weight/muscle mass.

 

Froch he might well have out weighed in the ring, Carl is notoriously not much of a weight cutter, it's one of the reasons for his great stamina, not being drained from cutting.

Most of his opponents you say? Who else and by a significant amount not 1 or 2 pounds.

Hard to believe that he out weighed Dawson and Smith on the night.