Sonny Liston: “The Strongest Heavyweight I Ever Dealt With” - George Foreman

agree, going by who shoves the other or holds the other in a boxing match is not a test of strength. One guy might not be resisting or pushing. The strongest heavyweights were probably Paul Anderson, Leif Larsen, Jumbo Cummings, and some others like that. None of them made it to the top but Larsen and Cummings did okay with limited boxing experience.

 

Not really that surprising, Liston was a unit.

 

Well, judging by the trouble he had with Marty Marshall, he might struggle more than you think.

If you omit the Patteson fights, where Patterson was a stylistically dead duck and a scared one too, Sonny's resume of wins become thin.

Machen, Williams, a slightly past his best Valdes, and Folley reasonably rate as his best other wins besides Patterson.

Machen and Folley were too small and did not hit hard enough to bother Liston. Valdes was a bit of a soft-hearted big man. Williams came to fight and was pretty much even ( even busted Liston up ) too bad he had the chin of a soccer player.

I'd favor Liston to go 3-0 vs Choynski, Corbett, and Fitzsimmons, but is not a sure thing, and I think he would at least struggle a bit in one of the matches.

 

He lost a split decision against Marshall fighting under the handicap of a broken jaw,stopped him in the rematch and Marshall didn't win a round in their third fight as he ran like a thief.Trouble?

Too small? This is funny! Folley was 6'1" 198.5lbs Machen 6'0" 196lbs .
Would you have said they were too small if they had fought Jim Jeffries!lol

 

No, he aint broke Listons Jaw!
But he knock Liston down in the second or third fight

 

GREAT post! Kudos Rez

 

I agree with you. My own view is that Ali surprised many because he held his own in there and didn't get "manhandled".

 

I am talking functional strength, fighting strength. What Ali accomplished against Foreman was as much a great feat of functional strength as it was cunning and skill.

Until the set up a weight rack mid-ring, that's what I'll be discussing here.

(also, didn't Hasim Rahman bench in the 550 range? OK, I will also discuss gym strength.)

 

Ali´s strength is very underrated, the dude was stong, not just a quick dude you can push away.
Yea, Hasim bench something like 500-550,a very stong dude with long arms, his physic remind me of Liston.
Shane Mosley also bench something like 300-350

 

I'm also talking about functional strength in the ring and not a weight room. However, just because we're talking in the ring, that doesn't mean we can compare "feats" of functional boxing strength when somebody isn't actively resisting or pushing back. They both have to be wrestling for holds and position in order for such a comparison and test to be made. However that wasn't the case in this fight. Foreman wasn't pushing Ali's hand off of his shoulders or head. He was content to let Ali grab him, while he continued to fire away at his body and head. So yes, we're talking functional boxing strength, but two people need to be actively engaging in wrestling tactics, for any comparison to be made. That wasn't the case here.

 

The sparring must have taken place in the late '60's, 1970 at the latest, men George was still a 215 lbs teenager. How well can such an experience compare to when he was 40 lbs heavier in the 90's and training with weights?

 

Well if you bench press 200 then 195 is going to feel heavier than 250 feels when you can bench 300.

Just like my dad seemed like the strongest guy in the world when i was 12 and used to try to beat him at arm wrestling. By the time i was 15 we stopped because i started beating him. By the time i was 20 i could possibly have broken his arm if i tried to arm wrestle him for real.


Liston was very strong for sure. But some of the bigger guys of the 90s were probably stronger(especially roided out briggs and morrison) even if it didnt feel that way for george who had gained weight himself.


That being said strength in boxing doesnt translate 100% to strength in the weight room, and liston may well have literally been the strongest guy foreman was in the ring with in a boxing sense

 

You apparently dont know what "manhandling" means.

And foreman wasnt trying to outmuscle ali, he was trying to knock him out.

Do you realize WHY his strategy was to tire foreman out? Do you realize why a matador tries to outmaneuver a bull in the first place?

Again, ali wouldnt be all defensive and trying to tire foreman out if he was so much stronger than him.

 

Couple points i wanna make

-first, youre makin this sound waaay too complicated. I can easily recall which opponent was the fastest, who had the best defense, etc. All the guys i trained with can do the same. If you supposedly did any martial arts it wouldnt be too hard to narrow down to 5, if not 10 people tops for each category. Either that or you have a bad memory.

-foreman wasnt "dwarfed" by liston he was actually pretty big at 230 lbs in the amateurs. As for him being in "awe" that didnt stop him from slugging it out for 6 rounds on two separate occasions. They both went at it according to him and other people there.

-lastly, if u dont put much stock in quotes in the first place why r we having this conversation? Im not here to convince you to.

 

You and seamus dont seem to know what the word "manhandle" means:

1. to handle roughly.
   
   
2. to move by human strength, without the use of mechanical appliances.

Grappling "technique", "leverage", and "skill" would be "mechanical applications" in the context of wrestling.

"Manhandling" would imply pure brute force in the absence of any sort of technique. For example, a silverback gorilla manhandling a much smaller male that challenges it.

Foreman is very clear and straightforward in his recollection. He makes it seem like sonny was like the infamous "immovable object" and wouldnt budge or back off and forced him to actually box and think.

They also did a training exercise where the had to push a wheelbarrow full of rocks. Liston was able to do 3x the number of laps as the younger foreman. Thats a clear indication of not just pure arm strength, but also endurance.

Putting the two anecdotes together, it seems pretty obvious why foreman thought so highly of listons physical strength. No one ever bullied and outmuscled him, not cleveland williams or even ali.