Sonny Liston: “The Strongest Heavyweight I Ever Dealt With” - George Foreman

5 years later he fought Ali.

That's for the average male. George Foreman and boxers in general are not the average male, they're athletes. The average male doesn't work out or compete in olympic level sports.

You're trying to take a trend amongst some heavyweights and apply it to all heavyweights. You have to analyze it on a case by case basis. If we were discussing Tyson I could just say he was still growing in his pro debut because its a general trend of heavyweights to not be "done growing".

You're confusing physical growth/maturing into an adult with putting on weight. Most heavyweights are done growing when they turn pro.

 

Can't see it.

 

So what is your point? Are you just quibbling with terminology or do you really think that the experienced, 250lb version of Foreman would have been as easy for Liston to back up as the lighter, inexperienced, teenage Foreman? Do you really think that Old Foreman would have been as intimidated by Liston?

 

I'm not confusing anything. I'm saying the male body, whether Olympic athlete or not, tends to carry on putting weight on and getting stronger throughout their 20s peaking, with variables, in the mid to late 20s and remaining at or around that peak until the early 30s. There are ever such a lot of articles that support that view. Couldn't find any saying male strength peaks at 20, not even in exceptional circumstances, but feel free to post a few links if you have more joy.

And I am confused that most heavyweights are 'done growing by the time they turn pro'. They may be as tall as they will ever be but they have still to fill out and pack out their frame. That's why virtually every champion weighs more when they fight for the title than when they turn pro. They carry on filling out and getting stronger. At least I assume that's what has happened to so many heavyweights over the years.

But perhaps I'm wrong and you're right and these heavyweights have just thought 'Do you know what, I was at my optimum weight when I turned pro but now I'm on world class level, I think I'll pack 10-15lbs of useless timber on. That should help."

It would be helpful if you could name a few heavyweight champions who won the title weighing much what they weighed on their debuts. I'm guessing it will be a short list for all the reasons mentioned above.

 

Jesus wept. It really does come down to that, doesn't it?

You're on your own, now, Kev. I 'm done. This is a debate where people won't concede even in the face of the stark, staring obvious. I'm going to go and tell my 16 year old son that his life would be richer without his phone. I've got more chance of getting him to give ground.

 

Ha. I’m out too. If these classic Boxing fanboys don’t have the basic common sense or emotional detachment to grasp this stuff, they’re on their own.

 

You haven't the slightest clue as to anything I said in that post.

You're equating Foreman's increase in fat with being stronger and braver. How the hell do you come to this conclusion?

Also, how do you come to the conclusion that Foreman is referring to Liston's strength as his ability to back Foreman up? That's punching power. Foreman is referring to physical strength.

I'll tell you this, a prime Foreman at 220 would have had an easier time with Liston than a fat pre-diabetic bald senior citizen Old Foreman.

 

The human body can continue to get significantly stronger well into middle-old age. Why do you keep claiming that I said that strength peaks at 20? That's complete nonsense and something I never claimed. You have no argument.

Any study your referencing is talking about the average male in terms of strength over a lifetime. NOT top level athletes. If a 20 year old spends 5 years powerlifting and achieves significant strength gains then stops training for 5 years its guaranteed that they won't be able to put up the numbers they did at the end of those 5 years. But according to you strength peaks at 30.

Not all heavyweights are still filling out. Many of them bulk up. Look at Anthony Joshua, he wasn't filling out. He bulked up. Whatever reason they feel they should add weight its up to them. You're trying to somehow switch my argument around and say that I'm claiming that ALL heavyweights are filled out when they turn pro. This is simply not true at all.

If you want to be taken seriously stop trying so hard to be "right" by twisting around my words and actually exchange ideas.

George Foreman
Joe Frazier
Larry Holmes
Rocky Marciano
James J Corbett
James J Jeffries
Jack Sharkey
Primo Carnera
Ingemar Johansson
Leon Spinks
Mike Tyson
Lennox Lewis
Tyson Fury (got smaller)

That's a pretty big list many of which were significant heavyweight champs.

 

Foreman's words were that Liston was the only guy who could consistently back him up. According to Foreman nobody else could. Do you disagree with Foreman?

 

Old Foreman was extremely strong and a massive human being, even among heavyweight boxers. He'd fought in championship mega-fights and gone life-and-death with huge punchers and ATGs. He was as cool and confident as any heavyweight I've ever seen. If you think that this man would've had the same experience sparring Sonny Liston or the same impression of Liston as he did as an inexperienced, teenager, I really can't help you.

 

Young Foreman was extremely strong as well. You speak as if they are two separate human beings. What atgs did Old Foreman go life and death with? Wouldn't call the Holyfield fight life and death.

I never said that Old Foreman would have the same experience or same impression sparring Liston that he did when he was younger. I'm simply exposing the large gaping holes in your logic. You are making assumptions that you know Foreman's reasoning for calling Liston strong and are also making assumptions as to what goes on in Foreman's head as far as intimidation goes.

Nobody has asked nor has anyone ever wanted your "help". However condescending it may be.

 

You haven’t exposed anything, and I haven’t made any of the assumptions you’ve alleged. Do better.

 

Here you go again denying reality...

 

For anyone who puts stock in these quotes, here's Foreman listing Ron Lyle as the strongest man he ever faced (after listing Liston and Ali as having the best jabs).

https://www.ringtv.com/346563-best-ive-faced-george-foreman/

 

guess that find by Kevin brings this discussion to a screeching halt? Must be the most emphatic end of a discussion in the history of message boards?