The Ferguson fight was dreadful. Tyson was a competant infighter though at his best. I honestly think his infighting is the most under rated facet of his game, it's hard to really do a lot when you're fighting for the most part 6'4, 6'5 behemoths who want nothing more than to simply hold on as hard as they can. Against Tony Tubbs, the KO punch and most of the fight leading up to that was on the inside. This is an under rated performance and needs to be taken into account, it shows that Tyson and his trainers were working on his inside game and that he COULD work very efficiently on the inside. PS nice avatar Bennet is the man.
Always a good topic... here goes- Liston was 6'1" (maybe just a little bit shorter?) with an 84" reach (maybe a little less?) and about 210-215Lbs. at his best. Overall, he was a little taller than Tyson with a much longer reach. Their weight is close. Tyson was usually listed at 5'11 1/2" with a 71" reach and around 215-220Lbs. at his best. Most feel he is a little shorter than this. Both were very intimidating and strong men with good power. I think Tyson was the more explosive and unpredictable of the two. Tyson was also much faster. Liston had a long hard jab that was one of the best. Tyson bobbed and weaved his way inside of his opponents reach in order to start most of his combinations. Both men took good shots but both men were also stopped more than once. Tyson 50-6 (44) 2NC overall (stopped x5) and 12-4 (10) in HW World Title Fights in his two title reigns. Liston 50-4 (39) overall (stopped x3) and 2-2 (2) in HW World Title Fights. The fight Tyson beat the likes of Ferguson, Tillis, Green, Ribalta, Ratliff, Berbick, Smith, Thomas, Tucker, Biggs, Holmes, Tubbs, M. Spinks, Bruno x2, Williams, Tillman, Stewart, Ruddock x2, Mathis, Seldon, Botha, Norris (NC), Savarese, Golota (NC), Nielsen, and Etienne among others. Only 4 (Tillis, Green, Smith, and Tucker) in these 28 fights managed to last the distance. Liston beat guys like Summerlin x2, Marshall (2 out of 3), Whitehurst x2, Bethea, Daniels, Cab, DeJohn, Williams x2, Valdes, Besmanoff, King x2, Harris, Folley, Machen, Westphal, Patterson x2, Clark, and Wepner among others. In these 25 fights he scored 18 wins by KO. The fight- Round 1. Tyson starts fast like he always does but he fights smart. He respects Liston but he isn't afraid of him. Tyson's round. He even rocks Liston a few times. His hand speed and workrate are the difference. No knockdowns. Rounds 2-3. Liston picks up the pace in these rounds but Tyson is a step ahead of Liston. Liston does land some good jabs that back Tyson up but Tyson comes right back with quick combinations that rock Liston from time to time. Tyson 30-27. Round 4. Tyson is getting comfortable now but Liston hasn't lost his composure. Tyson starts unloading but starts leaving himself open after throwing his shots. Liston starts landing some good 1-2's. Liston's round. Rounds 5-7. Both men are still fresh. A real fight breaks out in the middle of round 5. Both men get rocked, even round. Round 6 is Liston's best round so far he starts landing more often and making Tyson miss more often. Round 7 is a slower round, both seem happy to take the round off, Liston does a little more. Even fight after 7 rounds, 67-67. Rounds 8-9. Tyson is more precise with his output. He's fighting at a medium pace and fighting smart. Liston's output has dropped. At the end of round 9 both men land good shots. Tyson's eye's are starting to swell and Liston is bleeding from the mouth and nose. Tyson's up 87-85 after round 9. Rounds 10-11. Liston gives it his all in round 10 but Tyson is fighting a very good fight. His hand speed is still a factor and he is starting to bust Liston's face up with hard combinations. Liston still has the jab working and is jacking up Tyson's eye's with jabs and a few right hands. Tyson up by a point going into the last round. Last round. Both men are still trying to stop the other. Much leather is thrown this round but few solid punches are landed. The judges are split on the round. Two judges have the fight even and one scores for Tyson. The result? A Majortiy Draw!!!
What a great fight this would be Liston is an imposing figure and would not be afraid of Tyson, but I don't think Tyson is afraid of Liston either. From what I have been reading on here it seems that more of the lengthy posts favor Liston and the one liners take Tyson.. This is a tough fight I can see scenarios with either man winning. I can see Liston busting Mike and controlling him with the jab, but I can also see Mike attacking Liston like hes never been before and Liston having the fight beaten out of him.. This is what I see. Tyson goes in for the kill as soon as the bells sounds for round one and is all over Liston, Sonny is fighting back but taking worse then he is giving. As we enter the 3rd Liston is starting to get his feet under him and is landing some heavy shots starting with his heavy jab followed by crisp rights and sometimes 3 punch combos ending with either the uppercut or hook. By the 5th Tyson is starting to be pushed back and Liston is now the stalker but he still is still eating plenty of fast counters by Tyson to the body and head. Going into the 7th round its anybodies fight. The men continue to exchange heavy punches over the next few rounds, I see Tyson stunning Liston with a heavy counter in a fierce exchange and going for broke and finishing the night. Tyson tko somewhere between 7-9 rounds..
I'm not as confident in Listons chin as some people here. We all know it took a long, sustained beating to get Tyson on the canvas, even when he was well past his best against the likes of Lennox Lewis. Tyson was never clean sparked out like Sonny against Leotis Martin, even against Lewis, Williams, McBride etc. when he was a total shell. Tyson has a clear edge in durability here and in a battle like this, that could make all the difference. Stylewise I favor Liston, but I honestly don't think he could take what Tyson would dish out. This is one of the hardest fantasy fights to pick, imo.
Liston KO. I just can't see Tyson getting past that long jab of Liston's time and time again. Even if he can get past it once, he'll be caught with something else behind and he still won't be in range. Liston stops him in the middle rounds 3-6.
So does taking Folley's, dejohn's, williams, pattersons shots mean nothing ? pretty much, he got cleanly caught with a right cross in the leotis fight, and that can happen to anybody. plus it shouldn't really be considered since he was probably in his early 40s. plus he was only floored 3 times to Tyson's 5.
Youre hate for Tyson is remarkable, are you Desiree Washington. If Ali could KO Lison with 1 punch, then a combo by Tyson would leave poor Liston in a coma. I agree with most though, one of the hardest fantasy fights to pick
I didn't say it meant nothing but Liston got rattled by single shots and single barrages, something that never really happened to Tyson. Even when monster punchers like Bruno landed their best shots clean on his chin when Tyson was throwing a shot, it hardly affected him. Cleveland Williams had him pretty shook up in the first round of their first fight, Whitehurst staggered him, Marshall may or may not have dropped Liston (Marshall always claimed that he knocked Liston down in the rematch, but it was his biggest mistake), Howard King stunned him, Clay had Liston on shaky ground, Leotis Martin sent him to Pluto with one shot. We don't have film of his fights with Folley or DeJohn. Liston was far from china chinned but his durability would be really put to the test here and Tyson clearly, clearly absorbs shots better imo.
Liston would be a test for Mike but I think a prime Tyson rises to the occasion. Yes Liston could cause Tyson problems if he backed him up, but I don't see that happening. Tyson's speed would mean he would beat Sonny to the punch and once that happened he would gain Liston's respect and start to control the fight. I like Tyson to win by TKO inside 6 rounds.
Tyson was dropped by Douglas, Holyfield, and Lewis before he was totally washed up. He was even pretty well past it vs. Lewis. Douglas and Lewis are monsters compared to almost all of the people Liston fought... tall, long reaches, heavy, and with good power, speed, and boxing skills. Holyfield is one of the best ever. Summerlin, Marshall, Folley, Machen, Patterson, etc. were much smaller than Douglas, Holyfield, and Lewis. Tyson is more durable IMO. I'm starting to think Liston would be a little easier for Tyson than I have been expecting.
Williams is one of the most overrated contenders of all-time. Too much "what could have been" with him. Williams was slow and easy to hit. He was 6'3" with an 80" reach and weighed 210-215Lbs. at his best. He was dropped twice and stopped in 3 rounds by LHW Bob Satterfield. He was no monster like the 6'5" 245Lb. Lewis or even the 6'4" 235Lb. Douglas.
