Sonny Liston Chemicals in Ali eyes

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by shadow111, Oct 12, 2015.


  1. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    88,809
    14,205
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    Can you provide a source for that ? I have never seen any quote from him concerning that.
     
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    50,244
    6,221
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 29, 2007
    Its in the 12 Greatest Rounds of Boxing doc.
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    88,809
    14,205
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    There is no mention in the reports of the fight,on the contrary Liston claimed Valdes thumbed him in the first round resulting in his eye closing.


    Prescott Evening Courier, "NINO VALDES TRIES SONNY LISTON ON TV" August 5, 1959
    This content is protected

    Milwaukee Sentinal, "Liston Stops Valdes in 3rd" August 6, 1959
    This content is protected

    Meriden Record, "Liston Stops Nino Valdes In 3rd Round" August 6, 1959
    This content is protected
     
  4. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,851
    161
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 19, 2012
    I remember that too. What I would be interested in is if these accusations were made before the Ali fight or after.
     
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    50,244
    6,221
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 29, 2007
    The fight is best remembered for a big time knockout. Watch the 12 greatest rounds. Liston vs Ali is mentioned and panel of commentators mention this wasn't the only time fighters complained about burring eyes when facing Liston.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    88,809
    14,205
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    To give this any credence primary sources are needed, not commentators asides. Contemporary quotes , not speculation are required.
    Watching the Machen fight there is no indication Machen had any eye problems.
     
  7. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,664
    249
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Sep 27, 2011
    What I was really getting at is while Machen claimed he was blinded during the fight, I can't find anywhere on the film where he appears to be having eye troubles.

    As to the Liston-Clay incident, again there is a lack of hard evidence. As far as I can tell, the source for Clay's blinding being a deliberate cheating attempt from Liston's camp is Jack McKinney, quoting Joe Polino and writing many years after the fight when Liston was dead. McKinney was the same guy who made up the story about Liston slapping Ali in a casino, so his reliability is questionable anyway.
     
    mcvey likes this.
  8. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,770
    21
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jul 23, 2011
    Dundee said Liston didn't do it intentionally. It was liniment that was being used on his shoulder.

    Liston said it best. 'If I put something on my gloves, it would have got in my eyes, too'.

    I think Clay might have faked the whole thing. I had an abrasive chemical in my eye once and my eye clamped shut and I couldn't have opened it if I had wanted to.
    The close up of Clay's corner shows him opening his eyes as big as dollars and batting them around, like a cartoon character- making a show out of it. I've never believed it.
     
    louis54 likes this.
  9. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    88,809
    14,205
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    No surprise about your conclusion.
    When Ali came back to the corner he told Dundee to ,"cut the gloves off I want to show the world there is wrong doing here".
    Dundee put his finger into Ali's eye and then into his own eye he said it burned like hell.
    So according to you both Ali and Dundee must have been lying /faking or , if Dundee was telling the truth, Ali smuggled some substance into the ring and some how deliberately blinded himself with it all the while wearing boxing gloves.
    This may surprise you ,but I'm inclined to go with the idea that Ali and Dundee were telling the truth and that you are talking out of your ar*e yet again.
     
  10. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

    659
    293
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Nov 15, 2011
    Maybe someone can correct me, but I'm pretty sure Machen didn't come up with this story till after the Liston-Ali fight.
     
  11. ribtickler68

    ribtickler68 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,985
    73
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Apr 27, 2013
    Zora Folley, too. I read it in Boxing Babylon by Nigel Collins. I don't know if it's true or not.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    88,809
    14,205
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    Liston brutally kod Folley in 3rds, he had him down twice for 9 counts in the 2nd rd, only the bell saving him for a ko .
    Why would Liston need the assistance of chemicals in that fight? :think
     
  13. ribtickler68

    ribtickler68 Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,985
    73
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Apr 27, 2013
    I'm not saying he did or he didn't; just that I remember reading it in that book. To be honest, I think Sonny might be getting a bad rap in these stories; partly due to his image.

    By the way, that was book was a good read. Sadly, I mistakenly threw it out with some old newspapers in a house move!

    Is there no footage of Liston-Folley? I've never seen any, even on highlight reels.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    88,809
    14,205
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 2, 2006
    I don't know if Klompton has film of the fight.
     
  15. Johnny_B

    Johnny_B New Member Full Member

    60
    12
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 8, 2020
    Well said. It was either the oinment used on his injured shoulder or Monsell's solution.
     


Sign up for ESPN+ and Stream Live Sports! Advertisement