There is no mention in the reports of the fight,on the contrary Liston claimed Valdes thumbed him in the first round resulting in his eye closing. Prescott Evening Courier, "NINO VALDES TRIES SONNY LISTON ON TV" August 5, 1959 [1] Milwaukee Sentinal, "Liston Stops Valdes in 3rd" August 6, 1959 [2] Meriden Record, "Liston Stops Nino Valdes In 3rd Round" August 6, 1959 [3]
I remember that too. What I would be interested in is if these accusations were made before the Ali fight or after.
The fight is best remembered for a big time knockout. Watch the 12 greatest rounds. Liston vs Ali is mentioned and panel of commentators mention this wasn't the only time fighters complained about burring eyes when facing Liston.
To give this any credence primary sources are needed, not commentators asides. Contemporary quotes , not speculation are required. Watching the Machen fight there is no indication Machen had any eye problems.
What I was really getting at is while Machen claimed he was blinded during the fight, I can't find anywhere on the film where he appears to be having eye troubles. As to the Liston-Clay incident, again there is a lack of hard evidence. As far as I can tell, the source for Clay's blinding being a deliberate cheating attempt from Liston's camp is Jack McKinney, quoting Joe Polino and writing many years after the fight when Liston was dead. McKinney was the same guy who made up the story about Liston slapping Ali in a casino, so his reliability is questionable anyway.
Dundee said Liston didn't do it intentionally. It was liniment that was being used on his shoulder. Liston said it best. 'If I put something on my gloves, it would have got in my eyes, too'. I think Clay might have faked the whole thing. I had an abrasive chemical in my eye once and my eye clamped shut and I couldn't have opened it if I had wanted to. The close up of Clay's corner shows him opening his eyes as big as dollars and batting them around, like a cartoon character- making a show out of it. I've never believed it.
No surprise about your conclusion. When Ali came back to the corner he told Dundee to ,"cut the gloves off I want to show the world there is wrong doing here". Dundee put his finger into Ali's eye and then into his own eye he said it burned like hell. So according to you both Ali and Dundee must have been lying /faking or , if Dundee was telling the truth, Ali smuggled some substance into the ring and some how deliberately blinded himself with it all the while wearing boxing gloves. This may surprise you ,but I'm inclined to go with the idea that Ali and Dundee were telling the truth and that you are talking out of your ar*e yet again.
Maybe someone can correct me, but I'm pretty sure Machen didn't come up with this story till after the Liston-Ali fight.
Liston brutally kod Folley in 3rds, he had him down twice for 9 counts in the 2nd rd, only the bell saving him for a ko . Why would Liston need the assistance of chemicals in that fight? :think
I'm not saying he did or he didn't; just that I remember reading it in that book. To be honest, I think Sonny might be getting a bad rap in these stories; partly due to his image. By the way, that was book was a good read. Sadly, I mistakenly threw it out with some old newspapers in a house move! Is there no footage of Liston-Folley? I've never seen any, even on highlight reels.
