Sonny Liston (Clark '68) vs. Joe Frazier (Ali III '75)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Kalasinn, Jan 25, 2011.


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  1. Kalasinn

    Kalasinn ♧ OG Kally ♤ Full Member

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    Great Past-Prime fantasy bout:

    The supremely physically & mentally conditioned, 219lbs of solid muscle, Old Liston who looked impressive both boxing with his ramrod jab & slugging heavy bombs, dispatching quality contender Clark in the 7th round, against the viscious, relentless "scrapyard dog" that was Frazier, who battled tooth & nail in his notoriously brutal third fight with Ali.

    Notes: The fight is 12 rounds. Assume that Frazier unleashes the same intense hatred on Liston that he did against Ali, otherwise this wouldn't be a fair representation of Manila Smokin' Joe. Also, Sonny may have been about 40 years old against Clark, 4 years older than his official age of 36, but he was clearly in superb mental & physical condition, ready for a war if need be.

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    Kalasinn, Jan 25, 2011
    Kalasinn, Jan 25, 2011
    #1
  2. combatesdeboxeo

    combatesdeboxeo Guest

    are you joking? haha this version of frazier was still much better than liston 68. liston 68-70 was finished.( wepner was a crappy fighter), frazier gave the hell to ali. frazier 76 vs liston 68 would be more close
     
    combatesdeboxeo, Jan 25, 2011
    combatesdeboxeo, Jan 25, 2011
    #2
  3. Kalasinn

    Kalasinn ♧ OG Kally ♤ Full Member

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    How about you try actually watching Liston-Clark, before crapping on my thread with your trollish posts?

    Liston was far from "finished" in that bout.
     
    Kalasinn, Jan 25, 2011
    Kalasinn, Jan 25, 2011
    #3
  4. combatesdeboxeo

    combatesdeboxeo Guest

    what a stupid comment.... also tyson destroyed clifort in his late career, so tyson was not finished because he did beat a bum..:nut sonny liston was a complete shot among the years 68-70, end of the history
     
    combatesdeboxeo, Jan 25, 2011
    combatesdeboxeo, Jan 25, 2011
    #4
  5. Hydraulix

    Hydraulix Left Hook From Hell.. Full Member

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    Oh man. Good one. I'd like to say Frazier because he moved faster than this version of Sonny. By staying in close and applying pressure, he could win it. Plus, he gave Muhammad Ali absolute hell.

    But all Liston needs is one punch. When they start brawling, it could honestly go either way. Sonny would either submit to Joe after a barrage of vicious left hook counters, or he'd catch Joe with a surprise punch and get a stoppage. I'd favor Joe to win this, but Sonny has puncher's chance.
     
    Hydraulix, Jan 25, 2011
    Hydraulix, Jan 25, 2011
    #5
  6. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Joe Frazier had looked so-so in his fight with Jimmy Ellis, and reports were he was getting
    pounded pretty good in sparring.

    I would think, that Sonny Liston's heavy jab would help the old man pile up a
    nice lead.
    While lumping up Smokin Joe's face.

    If, and a big if, if Sonny could land a right upper-cut or straight right, he may have hurt Joe, but not enough to stop him.
    Joe would probably rally in the last 4 rounds.

    I make it a 1-point win for Smokin Joe,,,6-5-1
     
    Il Duce, Jan 25, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 25, 2011
    #6
  7. Foreman Hook

    Foreman Hook ☆☆☆ G$ora ☆☆☆ Full Member

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    Liston TKO3 - his Haymaker uppercuts do him in.
     
    Foreman Hook, Jan 26, 2011
    Foreman Hook, Jan 26, 2011
    #7
  8. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This version of Liston COULD win it. If Sonny can get in a payoff punch, or three,in early. Otherwise Joe would weather the early storm,and take Sonny out later on. Probably what would happen here. If this was the POST Manilla version of Frazier,then I'd favour the ageing Sonny.
     
    Stevie G, Jan 26, 2011
    Stevie G, Jan 26, 2011
    #8
  9. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Common opponents besides Muhammad Ali,

    George Johnson
    Eddie Machen

    Sonny did have a weakness in defending left hooks to the body.
    As per Bert Whitehurst and Howard King.

    And the older Smokin Joe was not taking anybody out early, as his power
    was diminishing too.

    Tough pick here.
     
    Il Duce, Jan 26, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 26, 2011
    #9
  10. Kalasinn

    Kalasinn ♧ OG Kally ♤ Full Member

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    Sonny was a huge puncher & a lethal finisher, so if he could land a flush heavy uppercut, which would likely drop Joe, then quickly follow-up with more timed bombs when Frazier rises, he might start a brutal knockdown cycle leading to a referee stoppage. However this would likely have to happen in the first few rounds, before Joe starts Smokin'. Would he still have the quickness to do so, i'm unsure. I suspect this Old Sonny would start to gass after 6 or 7 hards rounds while taking debilitating left hooks to the body, which would be asking for trouble against Frazier, who will be on fire by that later point. I do think Liston controls most of the first half by timing him with "The Cannon" jab, which would cruelly deform Joe's face as Il Duce said. :!:

    Ultimately if it lasts into the later rounds, Frazier would get stronger as Liston is grinded down by mean left hooks to his body & kidneys. His face an awful mess of swelling, brave warrior Smokin' Joe violently rallies late after staggering Sonny with a great left hook to the chin, forcing the referee to step in.

    I'll go for either Liston TKO4 or Frazier TKO12, with the later being the more probable senario.
     
    Kalasinn, Jan 26, 2011
    Kalasinn, Jan 26, 2011
    #10
  11. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Kalassin,,,,,,,,,I like the way you think,,,,,:good

    Wayne Heath,,,,a Sonny Liston sparring partner in 1968/1969, called
    Sonny the best 7-round fighter in the World, during his sparring sessions.

    After that, he was average.
     
    Il Duce, Jan 26, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 26, 2011
    #11
  12. combatesdeboxeo

    combatesdeboxeo Guest

    it is a good point PRIME VS PRIME, frazier 75 was too much for liston68
     
    combatesdeboxeo, Jan 26, 2011
    combatesdeboxeo, Jan 26, 2011
    #12
  13. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    vs. George Johnson

    May 24, 1967,,,,,23 year-old Joe Frazier Wdec 10 over George Johnson

    May 19, 1969,,,,,41 year-old Sonny Liston TKO 7 over George Johnson

    Not that it matters much, but neither fighter were able to drop 'Scrap Iron'

    Smokin Joe won 7 of the 10 Rounds, in a fairly easy decision win, (7-3-0) (7-2-1) (10-0-0)

    Sonny battered 'Scrap Iron' through-out, and was hitting him at will during a
    7th Round battering.
     
    Il Duce, Jan 26, 2011
    Il Duce, Jan 26, 2011
    #13
  14. Kalasinn

    Kalasinn ♧ OG Kally ♤ Full Member

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    I would love to see the full version of Liston-"Scrap Iron", since there is only a small clip on Youtube.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tY24J3dtoXY[/ame]


    Personally, I think Old Liston (Clark '68 ) vs. Shot Frazier (Foreman II '76) would've been reminisent of Liston-Johnson, since "Scrap Iron" has a similar style to Frazier.
     
    Kalasinn, Jan 26, 2011
    Kalasinn, Jan 26, 2011
    #14
  15. manbearpig

    manbearpig A Scottish Noob Full Member

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    Old Foreman wasn't much better than Liston at this time, but I know that you 100% think Old Foreman would crush Frazier.
     
    manbearpig, Jan 26, 2011
    manbearpig, Jan 26, 2011
    #15
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