Sonny Liston from the Cleveland Williams fights is the best heavyweight in history.

No, he's not. But thanks for playing!

 

I’m probably the biggest Liston fan on the forum and even I wouldn’t say this.

 

Lol.

 

He’s prob not but to be fair there is an argument for him. I have him in my top five HWs ever.

that and in no universe would Cleveland be champion let alone multiple eras.

 

If People like Willard, Carnera, etc could be champions Williams damn sure could as well.

 

Not championship material. King of C level fighters.

 

If Cleveland was boxing today, we might be able to find a belt for him somewhere around here. There certainly are plenty of them out there.

 

There are a handful of periods in HW history when Williams may have been able to grab a belt. But very few.

 

That's not true at all. C level fighters don't draw with one of the best technicians of their era in a fight most thought they won. They also don't beat Terrell (arguably twice) who'd go on to become the best HW of the mid 60s not named Muhammad Ali. They also damn sure don't make it to become a no. 2 contender.

Your statement that in "no universe would Cleveland be champion" is simply completely false. Do you honestly not think he'd smash a prime Willard? Let alone the 37 year old, inactive one who hadn't fought in years?

 

I disagree. I think their are many pre-50s era where Williams could've grabbed a belt, and he could've maybe even beaten some of the weaker lineal champions like Moorer perhaps.

 

Well Joe Louis ruled for like a million years, he is never taking the belt from him. Dempsey would win in a thrilling war. Tunney is very small, but I wouldn't bet one nickel on that outcome and Williams might get outboxed if he had to settle for a draw against Machen.

Johnson would be too cagey and smart and either wins a lopsided decision or possibly even stops him late. Baer would be a wild west shootout and the more durable guy usually wins (which would be Baer unquestionably).

That leaves a small handful of the lesser known fringe champions.

Walcott was vulnerable to big hitters, but at his best would be way too smart and well schooled for any version of Williams. Ditto for schmeling who beat several fighters that matched or surpassed Williams in boxing ability.

I think he might be able to pull something off against an inactive Willard, the lumbering Carnera, the miniscule tommy burns, or the one hit wonder Braddock. Outside of these four, I can't think of any champion from the gloves era onward whom I'd favor Williams over, and even those four champions could certainly hold their own against him.

 

By "they" i assume you mean Williams. What are all these sources believing Williams won over Machen? I've not seen too much around on this fight.

 

Many besides those 4 I'd favor over him, including 2 from his own era. Patterson (my third favorite fighter), and Johannson. I also used to favor Baer over him, but now am leaning towards Williams.

 

Maybe pre 30s. His chin was his biggest problem and his poor defense another. Nice offense but he lacked the other necessary skills to make it to the top. I’m not a Williams hater I just don’t think he was very good. Terrell win was his best unfortunately for him he couldn’t duplicate the result. You need multiple awesome wins to be at that top contender list. He hasn’t proved consistent enough at winning to say he’d be a champ in any era.