Sonny Liston - Had To Lose In Lewiston, Maine

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Senor Pepe', Nov 16, 2012.


  1. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    May 25, 1965

    Sonny Liston, had to lose in his Championship Bout with Cassius Clay.

    1) Every boxing commission in the United States had already banned him,
    except for the State of Maine.

    2) Even if he had won, there was no place he could have defended his
    Championship

    3) Even in Europe, he would not have been able to get a bout with a
    decent Challenger.

    4) Sonny Liston would make 5-times more money as an Officer in I-C-P
    promoting Cassius Clay's next fight, than if he had won the Heavyweight Championship
    and received a fight purse.

    5) If Sonny had won, there was no way a 'third bout' with Cassius Clay
    would take place anyway.
     
  2. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders Pounchin powar calculateur Full Member

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    This content is protected


    :deal
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    So what? That doesn't mean he "has to lose".

    How about Maine? :lol: Failing that, how about Sweden, where he fought his next fight anyway?

    Based upon what? To be clear, you think that NOBODY IN THE WORLD would be willing to fight against the HW champion of the world in Europe or Canada?
     
  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    What was the point of the fight in Lewiston, Maine anyway ?
    Did it make any money with the theatre TV ?

    Just about every one of Sonny Liston's title fights was a farce. 3/4 of them anyway.
    The first fight with Patterson was necessary.
    Liston's next 3 outings were cynical or comical insults to the intelligence of boxing fans (most of whom may not have had much intelligence, granted).
     
  5. doug.ie

    doug.ie 'Classic Boxing Society' Full Member

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    elaborate on that one ^^
     
  6. Lord Tywin

    Lord Tywin Guest

    Possibly one of the more ignorant posts by a poster with a plethora of ignorant posts.
     
  7. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    The May 25, 1965 bout was a 'done deal' with the closed circuit theatre
    operators, with $3,500,000 in signed contacts. It had to go through, or
    law suits galore would have taken place.

    The Clay-Liston II bout did approximately $4,200,000 in gross receipts.

    I-C-P and the Las Vegas wheels had already pre-negotiated a Clay vs.
    Patterson bout for late-1965.

    That fight was the 'only' real big money fight out there.
     
  8. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    If Clay had lost in Lewiston, the Clay-Patterson fight wouldn't have been worth anything.
     
  9. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    The Cassius Clay vs. Floyd Patterson bout in Las Vegas.

    Gross Receipts..........$5,350,000

    Inter-Continental-Promotions reaped in 20%, $1,000,000 plus.

    Had Sonny defeated Cassius Clay in May 1965, there was no place to go.

    Sonny was also banned from fighting in Canada, so a George Chuvalo
    bout was impossible.
     
  10. doug.ie

    doug.ie 'Classic Boxing Society' Full Member

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    he's alright...brighten's the place up around here i think.
     
  11. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Yeah, and the Las Vegas casinos (who were connected to Sonny Liston) would have made some big money as fight fans passed through.
    It's hard to say how much, but by the 1980s the casinos were paying the promoters to bring fights to them (rather than the promoters hiring the venue), so the receipts must be significant.
     
  12. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Some money numbers,,,,,,,

    With I-C-P in control

    Sonny Liston vs. Cassius Clay I......Gross Recepits....$4,922,000 (Live Gate - $400,000)

    Cassius Clay vs. Sonny Liston II......Gross Recepits....$4,400,000 (Live Gate - $200,000)

    Cassius Clay vs. Floyd Patterson.....Gross Receipts....$5,350,000 (Live Gate - $300,000)


    After Inter-Continental-Promotions completed their 2-fight option contract with Cassius Clay, they were off in another direction.
     
  13. BillB

    BillB Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It doesn't take a genius to see that Clay-Liston II was screaming for a fix.

    That's without even watching it.
     
  14. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    The only 'big money' name out there was Floyd Patterson.

    And Las Vegas would never have sanctioned a Sonny Liston vs Floyd Patterson III bout.

    Plus, Sonny's contracts were all under scrutiny. He was done in the
    United States, and all other countries with a Boxing Commission.

    The only reason it got to Lewiston, Maine - is beacuse they were
    desperate for anything, and William Faversham Jr. had connections up there.
     
  15. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Sonny Liston will make 5-times more money as an officer (President) of
    Inter-Continental-Promotions than if he had regained the Championship Title
    from Cassius Clay on May 25, 1965.

    As a fighter, you can also 'not' be the promoter of a fight, as per
    the rules with boxing commissions in all governing states.

    If Sonny Liston regained the Championship, he would have only be able
    to collect 30% of his fight purse, after taxes. (70% marginal tax rate).

    But, as a fight promoter, he would have been taxed on the corporate rate.

    I-C-P had the rights to promote Cassius Clay's next fight, (after Lewiston, Maine).

    Sonny would have reaped in more money as an Officer of I-C-P, than actually
    fighting in the ring.

    Plus, the Cassius Clay vs. Floyd Patterson bout was a 'certified blockbuster',
    with an estimated gross revenue of $5,000,000.

    If Sonny Liston had regained the Championship on May 25, 1965 - what do you
    think would have been the next fight.

    Maybe George Chuvalo or Ernie Terrell, which would have been lucky to do $500,000.