Sonny Liston, head to head GOAT

He was a hell of a fighter. No question about it.

 

There could've been a HW Muay Thai champion he couldn't beat...

 

I can see that

 

Don't mean to jump in the middle of the debate here, but this is a really solid post.

It also underscores why I have such a hard time rating Liston as highly as others do (once we start getting to top 10, top 5, GOAT terms. I don't argue against him being a hell of a fighter).

Simply put, some guys were built to become champions, others were built to stay champions. Liston was the former. It's not because he ran into the wrong fighter and a future ATG in Clay that bugs me, it's his mentality once he became champ. It's one thing if you train 100%, live the boxing life, and just run into a better, younger fighter. That's not what happened here.

Liston's work ethic & discipline out of the ring plummeted pretty much as soon as he won the title...as such, I think his legacy actually benefits in some ways from having to wait as long as he did for the title shot. I'm not sold, at all, that Sonny getting the belt earlier gives him a much longer, stronger title reign. I think it's more likely winning the belt would've moved the timeline of his decline forward accordingly.

Tough for me to rank him over guys who've got 9, 10, or more defenses, when there's not a lot suggesting to me he'd have had that in him.

 

Sonny Liston like other lead foot power punchers Arguello, Duran ,
Louis their weakness was speed. These fighters were at their
destructive best against fighters who came to fight.
Liston head to head against HW who weren't agile, slick would
probably be 90 % against other HW Champions.
Which one he loses to is open to interpretation .

 

This is a very good post. I don't argue against Sonny being a hell of a fighter either. He was. I only argue that he has to measure up above the guys he is rated over.

"Simply put, some guys were built to become champions, others were built to stay champions. Liston was the former". - this is a great line.

Right at the start I said the greatest H2H champion would look like Sonny without being Sonny. He'd have to look like Sonny beating better guys than Sonny did. The real Liston needs to have done this to be afforded that faith.

 

Yeah,maybe but then if you could pick a champion that would be made for Liston for him to become champion, that would be Patterson.

 

Perfect assessment!!! Sonny Liston QUIT!!!

 

Liston believe it or not was actually a funny guy! "Bill also has his dad’s sense of humor. When Sonny was around people he liked, and people who liked him, he left them laughing. British promoter Mickey Duff was one of many people who said Liston was the funniest guy he ever hung around with."

 

Liston always does better in h2h matchups than he did in reality.

 

That's what the cop would say as he's imprisoning him for **** after he's done with these men.

 

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WOQ1ERnkbh4/hqdefault.jpg

 

He was powerful, had great reach, very durable, and was terrifying.

I think liston listing in his prime would demolish Any of today's heavies. Defintly one of the greatest fighters of all time, I think he had the greatest jab of all time too

 

He lost to only 3 people in his entire career so I don't know what your point is.