Sonny liston is overrated.

Real??? Got a source?

 

Ali almost certainly meant that Liston gave him his toughest fight before he had his
boxing license withdrawn.
So yep,it's pretty obvious that overall Smokn'Joe gave Ali his toughest fight.I couldn't argue against that.
However Ali's statement about Sonny does show that Liston put in a creditworthy effort.

 

Gonna have to agree with this guy…

 

Yep,it was featured on Facebook ( I just put in the title-Ali said Liston gave him his toughest fight ).
In the same article Muhammad Ali affirmed that in his opinion Sonny was one of the greatest
heavyweight-champions of all time.
As another poster stated,it was in fact Smokin'Joe who gave Ali his worst hell but Ali's comments
about his fight with Sonny plus his rating of Sonny's greatness completely discredits those with
an anti-Liston agenda.

 

Yep,as much as I'm a huge fan of Sonny it was Smokin'Joe who gave Ali his toughest fight/fights ( I also happen to be a huge fan of Joe Frazier ! )
The one point I would make is that it wasn't the peak Ali that Sonny fought but still it was a fantastic performance by Smokin'Joe.The greatest victory in heavyweight history.

 

lol Liston and Frazier are my two favorite fighters ever.

 

Yep, same here.I've always hated the way Joe's fight with Big George has
led to him being a bit underrated.Still I guess that could be a subject for another
thread !

 

Possibly, it's a close enough fight until the ending. But Ali also said Doug Jones gave him his toughest fight in the 60s. In fact, in a Ring interview in 1976 when Ali rates his toughest opponents, Frazier, Norton and Jones were his top 3 (and he rated them out of 10 for their 'performance' against him, rather than overall, with Frazier getting '10' for FOTC and '9' for Manila and Norton getting a '9' for the first 2 fight and Jones was rated an '8'.

Of course, the judges have it even at the time. I think Clay's ahead myself, but a case can be made for 3-3, I suppose (in line with the judges).

 

Yes, I can't disagree with anything you say.Those ratings given by Ali do make sense.I pointed out
what Ali said about Liston and their fight to a poster who seems commited to entirely discrediting Liston.
Given that this was Ali at his stunning athletic peak and Liston was fighting with a very debilitating
condition in his shoulders it was a praiseworthy effort by Sonny.

 

If it was very debilitating he wouldn't have entered the ring. He was likely bothered something like Pac was before Mayweather or Loma before Lopez. Or Ali before pretty much everyone of his 70's fights, concerning his hands. Or RJJ for Hopkins, Ali for Chuvalo,.Holmes for Norton etc

Fighters train and fight through injury all the time. Once in the ring pain killers and adrenalin tend to see to it.

 

Noooo.......the condition of Liston's shoulders was extreme.On that basis if Patterson's back-injury was that
debilitating would he have entered the ring ?

 

Liston accomplished too much to call him overrated. Nobody runs through contenders like he did and destroys the champion back to back without being an amazing fighter. However, like a lot of fighters before and after him his hunger for the sport died once he became champion and made money. Liston from 1958-1962 was obsessed with boxing and becoming the champion and was willing to make all of the necessary sacrifices to achieve his goal.

But, after crushing Patterson for the second time Liston barely spent much time in the gym, he didn't follow his diet anymore, and was even looking to retire.

Here is a piece with Ali talking about how important hunger is as a top fighter.

Cassius Clay says dieting, not road work, is the easiest way to lose weight.

When the scales at the Fifth Street Gym showed 214.5 pounds Thursday, Clay stepped down and told how he trimmed off 17 pounds in two weeks.

"Diet did it. I just made myself fast. Today all I'll have to eat is two bites of salad, two string beans and a tiny piece of steak."

"It's a lot easier to go hungry than it is to work hard," he said.

"It doesn't make any differences how much money I make. I'll always be a hungry fighter - a guy who can get up off the floor and knock your head off."

"A lot of guys are hungry and they win a title. But then all that good living gets to them and they disappear. Floyd Patterson was like that and so was (Sonny) Liston."
https://imgur.com/XOtLXHp

 

There wasn't anything extreme with Liston's injury. That's fan boy excuses, no more. Patterson's injury happened in the fight and he was getting spanked like a redheaded stepchild long before it occurred (the first time they work on it in the corner is after the 7th). He always had problems with his back as I remember. As fighters often have with something, frequently hands.

Injuries is part of the sport and and fighters in most cases fight through them, with good help by adrenalin. Liston was swinging for the fences with that left and his last punch was a left. **** that it was anything debilitating with it. He quit. Both times. And it was ****ing shameful. Liston fans are as bad with their excuses as Tyson fans.

 

Ok......let me educate you.Liston was suffering from bursitis for a year leading up to his fight
with Ali.He had to take cortisone shots after each training session.Close to the actual fight Sonny
exacerabated the condition in his left shoulder and had to resort to ultrasound therapy and heavy icing
after each training session.No modern fighter would enter the ring under these circumstances.
You state that fighters often fight despite carrying injuries.Really ? So fighters often fight in the
sort of condition that Liston was suffering according to your expert knowledge ? What absolute
rubbish.
As for the fight itself a number of doctors confirmed that Liston had torn a tendon in his left arm
and it had left his arm swollen and paralysed.What the hell was Liston supposed to do ?
Look,perhaps you should do some research before spewing out this garbage.

 

Doesn't need any expert knowledge to know that Pac and Loma for example have gone into big fights postponing surgery. Or that Ali had huge problems with his hands (as had Mayweather and many others) with lots of treatment such as cortisone and whatnot in the 70's, but you don't hear any whining about him losing to Frazier and Norton because of them. And you have ****ing eyes, don't you? Looks like Liston is debilitated when he his is swinging for the fences? Get the **** out here. He was one of the great talents, but he was also a quitter. Saying something else is just blowing smoke up your own arse.