"Sonny Liston's sledge-hammer hands smashed Zora Folley to the canvas twice in the 2nd round and knocked him out at :28 seconds of the 3rd round of their scheduled 12 rounder in the Denver Coliseum. Folley used his boxing skill and swift punching hands to win the 1st round on the cards of all ring officials and the AP. Even after the first knockdown in the 2nd round, Folley rallied brilliantly and jarred Liston with a two-fisted attack. That only served to bring on Liston's sledge-hammer blows that decked Folley again. Folley tumbled face down onto the canvas for the final count in the 3rd. He never moved until seconds after the knockout." -Associated Press ."Sonny Liston's sledge-hammer hands smashed Zora Folley to the canvas twice in the 2nd round and knocked him out at :28 seconds of the 3rd round of their scheduled 12 rounder in the Denver Coliseum. Folley used his boxing skill and swift punching hands to win the 1st round on the cards of all ring officials and the AP. Even after the first knockdown in the 2nd round, Folley rallied brilliantly and jarred Liston with a two-fisted attack. That only served to bring on Liston's sledge-hammer blows that decked Folley again. Folley tumbled face down onto the canvas for the final count in the 3rd. He never moved until seconds after the knockout." -AP 6'1 213lb Sonny Liston Age 28 This content is protected vs 6'1 200lb Zora Folley Age 27 This content is protected
Even though he lost a decision to Folley and drew with him I consider Eddie Machen the better fighter than Zora Folley based on how Eddie fared better against Liston. It makes me respect anyone who could go 10 rounds to a decision and not get decked. Machen was also rather competive as well.
BIG DEE HERE= The difference between Machen and Folley is that Machen ran like a thief in the night. Folley did not as Folley tried to win the fight and Machen did not. Machen fought to survive the whole fight.
I just read an article on one of Sonny's fights just prior Patterson, written at the time. The man was considered M-U-R-D-E-R!
Yeah, looked to me like Machen was doing a lot of hugging and holding and spoiling. Wrestling and running. Sounds like Folley came to fight.
What fights of a Prime Zora Folley have you seen? Folley in his prime was as slick and technical as they get.
[FONT="]Yes, Folley was technical. He is worth watching for that reason alone. However, Folley was never extremely fast, was not a puncher, was not very mobile , and not very durable. To call his power average, his durability average, and his mobility better than average is fair. Those small boxers who lack power and durability are no longer top ten heavyweights. I have not seen Folley pre Liston. Perhaps he did look better, but losing to Cooper, barely edging Bethna on Split decisions ( 2 X ), and getting TKO'd by Young jack Johnson and Johnny Summerlin means he was not a great fighter before gettign whacked by Liston. If you feel Folley is in his prime post Liston but Pre Ali, then we have to look at his KO loss to Lavorante, a KO loss to Doug Jones, and a wide points loss to Terell. I havent seen " Prime " footage of Folley. Which ones have you seen? I would like to see it. My take it this, Folley matches up best with slower, non punchers. In these fights, his technical brilliance can shine. The punchers or taller / faster fighters seemed to have too much for Folley for the most part.[/FONT]
I disagree. He could have run, hugged and tried to survive. He could have showed cowardice. The report suggests he put up a good effort.
Liston would not let you hug him. He was too big and strong for most heavies in his era as an out fighter or in-fighter, and he'd foul if things were not going his way. I have seen many Liston fights and the other guy has a hard time tying him up. Folley in my opinion did not have the foot speed to stay away or the durability of Machen to take the blows.
Well, the point I'm making is that, according to the report, Folley did not TRY to run and hold. I'm giving Folley credit. Machen DID hold, he also grabbed and wrestled with Liston (Machen was strong), did some shoving, spun Liston, and other spoiling tactics. He waits for Liston to jab and grabs Liston's arm with both his arms. Hugging, wrestling and spoiling. I'm simply saying that the report suggests that Folley didn't even attempt to go for pure survival. I give him credit for that. I always give fighters credit for fighting and not dogging out.
I agree with your point. My point is Machen was better at running/holding/survival than Folley was, and Folley could not do what Machen did to survive for the distance.
Folley was in his prime when he fought Liston(note the fight took place in 1960). Try to watch some Folley film Late 1950s- very early 1960s. Its out there. Folley looks far faster, more slick, more mobile, much better jab and lean rock solid shape than the soft old Folley who fought Ali for the title. Folley handspeed was fine, and he didnt need to be "fast" he was slick enough. Folley could punch hard enough....... you have to understand when you box and jab as well as folley does he doesnt need to be a knockout puncher. Folley was quite mobile in his own right, he moved around the ring in incredible rythm he looked like slick nick in there, he also had a fantastic jab. Yes Folleys durability was his biggest concern. I disagree, Folley had the skills, jab, defense better than most heavyweight contenders throughout history. Folley wasnt small either, he was 6'1 200lb. Folley is certainly belongs in top 50 heavyweight of all time lists. Folley proved he could beat big skilled powerful heavyweights. Folley knocked off 6'3 215lb Nino Valdez, 6'2 220lb Bob Baker, 6'3 208lb Mike Dejohn, 6'6 225lb Gerhad Zech, 6'7 Duke Sabadong, Bob Cleroux the big canadian. Why do you keep critisizing his mobility when the only fight you ever saw of Folley on film is the soft slow old folley who fought ali? First of all I already clarified that Folley was in his prime/peak when he fought liston. 2nd, He lost to cooper on a hometown decision( I have this fight on film) but he also knocked out cooper in 2 rounds in the rematch. Folley is not very durable i admit that, but he was defintley a bit on the green side when he tangled with Young Jack Johnson and a very quality fighter in Johnny Sumerlin. No one is calling Folley a great fighter, but he is certainly up there as a very good heavyweight contender throughout history. I dont know about that, I mean the only tall fast fighter he fought was Ali, and Folley was 35 years old, very soft, and much slower than he had once been. He fought 6'6 Terell who is an underated fighter IMO and lost, but I have not seen much film on this fight nor do I know the details. Folley at 6'1 was not that short. I agree Folley matches up best vs big sluggers.
IMO the 1960 Folley did have the footspeed, slickness, to stay away from liston. Trouble was Listons long arms caught up to him. So freakish arms could catch anyone.