Sonny Liston 'Losing To Cassius Clay Is Just Good Business'

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Senor Pepe', Nov 25, 2012.


  1. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Sonny Liston,

    With all the money that was still tied up in courts, the law-suits and
    expenses.

    I-C-P gave Sonny Liston sound financial advive, 'Lose, and You Win Big'.

    The best 'financial move' for the Sonny Liston Team was to lose to
    Cassius Clay in February 1964, setting up the guaranteed rematch,
    and with I-C-P as the Promoters.

    Jack Nilon (Sonny's Manager) and Robert Nilon (President of I-C-P) had
    attempted to strike up the same deal with Ingemar Johansson back
    in September 1963, but 'snags' in the contract could not be 'ironed out'.

    The Nilon's wanted Sonny Liston and Ingemar Johansson to fight in the
    United States, preferably in Philadelphia or at the new Civic Center in
    Baltimore, Maryland, with I-C-P as the fight promoter.

    But, Edwin Ahlquist, the Top Scandanavian Fight Promoter, and Ingemar
    Johansson's Advisor, suggested the bout be held in Sweden, with him
    as the fight promoter..

    The bout was to be held at the Nyu Ullevi Stadium, where a sell-out of
    60,000 could be expected, and with a 'Live Gate' of $1,500,000 alone,
    besides another $5,000,000 + in closed circuit revenue.

    The 'snag', was the earliest the bout could take place was probably May 1964,
    because of the climate. The plan was to hold the bout on a Friday Night, and
    average temperature levels were (28* in February) - (33* in March) -
    (39* in April) - (47* in May) and (55* in June).
     
  2. dyna

    dyna Boxing Junkie banned

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    I don't like Cassius either, but aren't you just fabricating ****?
     
  3. groove

    groove Well-Known Member Full Member

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    "Where did that right hand come from?" asked Sonny Liston. "No I didn't quit" said Liston, "The blow landed on my left cheekbone. Yes it was a fair punch. It made me groggy but I've been hit harder. The lead right surprised me. I've never been knocked down before. I got up to my knees but fell the second time because I was off-balance. I will fight again. I'm in a position where I can't squawk. I have to fight anybody."

    "It was a good lick" said Patterson "He really hit him".

    Lewiston Evening Journal May, 25 1965
     
  4. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    No,

    Sonny Liston and his Advisors (Jack Nilon and Robert Nilon) were in
    Stockholm, Sweden in September 1963 - negotiating with Ingemar
    Johansson and Edwin Ahlquist.

    Since the Sonny Liston - Floyd Patterson II bout was pushed back to
    July 1963 - the Sonny Liston Team were lining up a '1964 bout', with
    the best financial gain.
     
  5. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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    Ali won both fights because he was better than Liston, in fact he was the best HW ever, you may not like it but the consensus says he was..... & that`s what matters most ;)
     
  6. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Yes Groove,

    The fight on May 25, 1965 was so legitimate, that every State Boxing
    Commission and North American Athletic Commission immediately suspended
    Sonny Liston for 'life', then changed it to 2-years in March 1966.

    Sonny Liston was 'next' able to box professionally in a sanctioned bout
    in North America on March 16, 1968.
     
  7. dyna

    dyna Boxing Junkie banned

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    Greatest =/= best, if you believe Ali had the best resume ever he is the greatest but to be the best he would have to be a lot better on h2h list.
    Currently most pick either Prime Tyson or Prime Lewis to be the best h2h, then a few who pick Prime Ali/Vitali/Bowe.

    And Ali isn't the best h2h, therefore he isn't the best.
    for the same reason Roy Jones isn't the greatest ever but is the best ever, he lacks resume but we all know he could whoop anyone at 168.
     
  8. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Sonny was a quitter and was looking for a way out, the punch stunned him theres no doubt. The man had the heart of a mouse
     
  9. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Thursday - August 29, 1963

    'It's No-Go For Ingo - Sonny'

    Lingering tax-difficulties for Ingemar Johansson in the United States
    will prevent a Liston - Johansson bout from happening in 1963.

    There were hopes of staging the bout at the new $16,000,000 Civic Center in
    Baltimore, Maryland - where 15,000 would have watched the
    Heavyweight Championship.

    Edwin Ahlquist stated, that with 'tax implications' in the United States,
    Mr. Johansson would be lucky to keep 10% of the fight purse. 'Ingo would be
    fighting for virtually nothing.'

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  10. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    Saturday - August 24, 1963

    Heavyweight Champion - Sonny Liston, his wife Geraldine, Advisor -
    Jack Nilon and sparring partner Foneda Cox arrived in Stockholm,
    Sweden yesterday, with an 'Armada of 200 Newsmen', to discuss an
    upcoming bout with Ingemar Johansson.

    Jack Nilon, has offfered Ingemar Johansson $1,000,000 for a bout in
    the United States.

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  11. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Your thread title quote was never spoken by Liston.

    Fabricator.

    Troll.

    What's new? Nothing but Pepe le Pew making up more stuff. Ali is still the greatest, and you are still a fabricator and liar.
     
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    He looked to be trying in the first.

    In the second he for caught with a good shot and then a farce of a referee job led to a farcical ending.
     
  13. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    "I-C-P gave Sonny Liston sound financial advice, 'Lose, and You Win Big'.

    "The best 'financial move' for the Sonny Liston Team was to lose to
    Cassius Clay in February 1964, setting up the guaranteed rematch,
    and with I-C-P as the Promoters."



    Liston made money in Fight 1 (betting odds), Fight 2 promotion......and the remaining Fights I-C-P promoted for Clay defenses under the contract "if Liston loses fight #1" .

    Liston had such high integrity....and dealing with the Dundees....then everybody came out a winner.
     
  14. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ali is rated as the best all time hwt champion. I don't know a historian worth his salt that rates either Tyson or Lewis no 1. In fact neither cracks top 5. Bowe???????????
     
  15. Senor Pepe'

    Senor Pepe' Boxing Junkie banned

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    LH 71,

    How 'bad' was Sonny Liston to deal with.

    He even 'screwed up' that easy 'Piece of Cake European Tour', at $5000
    per performance in September 1963.

    All expenses paid for, easy schedule, $5000 per appearance -

    And he still screws Joseph Glaser and Associated Booking Agency.

    'Sonny Boy' left Leicester, England on Wednesday - September 18, 1963

    Joseph Glaser had worked out a 'World Wide Exhibition Tour', where Liston
    would have made $500,000 -with a 100-appearance / 8-month tour..
    Starting from the end of August 1963 thru April 1964.

    Then, a Title Defense versus Cassius Clay in June 1964 - at the Municpal
    Stadium in Philadelphia.

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