Sonny Liston or Wladimir Klitschko who rates higher as a all time heavyweight?

It doesn’t clearly do anything. Patterson wasn’t a great because he wasn’t.

 

Did you get your girlfriend taken from you by one of these 70s fighters by any chance? I've never understood the vitrol you've had against that era.

I agree the 70s gets overrated, especially guys like Quarry, Lyle, and yes Shavers. At his peak he lost to guys like Bob Stallings. However, his power is legit. He was just lacking in many other fundamental aspects such as endurance and versatility. He certainly has a strong argument for hardest puncher of all time (though I wouldn't argue with anyone picking Wilder). According to all common opponents he hit harder than Foreman (in the words of Stan Ward "so much harder"), who 20 years later, had his power compared favorably to other monster punchers like Bowe, Tyson, Lewis, Wlad, the latter of two whom have fought relatively recently and almost certainly hit harder than anyone today not named (Peak) Wilder.

 

Nope, just weird

Decimation of native lands in the name of the Christian man. ... Our languages are dead or abouts but our sayings remain. Word choice, cadence, and sometimes I do say things in casual speech that is Tsalagi, not English. Mostly it's not that English isn't my first language so much as we have a colorful take on it. Not terribly dissimilar to the UK's Scottish-English except less exposed. You wouldn't say a Scot's usage of "How" is because it's not their first language you just accept they use "How" pretty colorfully and on understanding it find them less weird.

I am weird ... like genuinely have weird background for a boxing fan.

 

The earlier discussion of “18 title defenses vs 1 title defense but one is real others are fake” has some substance to it.
Most of WK title defenses would be contender fights.
In reality he had at most 13 title fights and in reality consodering his brother retirement really about 7-

 

How could WK vs Byrd-the first one be a championship fight when Lewis was the champion?

 

From Wach to Fury-meaning the moment his brother retired leaving no discussion eho really was the champ until he lost.
7 title fights.
Some would consider from the Chagaev fight as The Ring went to the extreme no 1 vs no 3 guys to occupy the vacancy as they figured out a no 1 vs no 2 fight(the brothers) would never happen.

 

The story about Bethea losing seven teeth isn't something that was made up years later, it was quite widely reported at the time. Explaining the decision to suspend Bethea for six weeks, the Illinois State Athletic Commission "noted that Bethea took a severe beating in the Liston bout, losing seven teeth."

https://ibb.co/HL7F8q5g

 

Wladimir kayoed larger and more durable men than Liston who generally faced guys under 200 pounds and not renowned for durability.

I don't see how Bethea can save him here. Bethea is tiny by the standards of Wlads era

 

Could you kindly google translate that?

 

No mention. Just "Cut Mouth" to go with his manager in the other article saying he had bleeding gums.

https://gahistoricnewspapers.galileo.usg.edu/lccn/sn84020323/1958-08-16/ed-1/seq-8/

 

I gotcha fam:
Native American perspective: Christian settlers took our lands. Though our languages are nearly gone, our expressions and speech patterns remain. My occasional use of Tsalagi (Cherokee) words isn't because English isn't my first language - it's cultural, similar to Scottish-English dialects. I acknowledge I have an unusual background for a boxing fan.

 

A few days ago this thread was all but wrapped up in a sort of consensus:
- Wlad has the better resume as a basis to claim a higher place in the ATG ranking.
- Sonny was the better fighter and H2H had the advantage.

I am gone for the weekend, come back and the thread has derailed.
Now I wonder when and how Wlad became the GOAT HW and all that...

 

I think you should reread his post….