Sonny Liston or Wladimir Klitschko who rates higher as a all time heavyweight?

Wtf is SFA?

If you drink water with fluoride for a few years, it's not the same as growing up on it. Ask your grandma if she got cavities.

 

Sweet F*** All. It's an Ausi thing

My God you just can't admit when you're wrong can you?

 

"New York City has fluoridated its tap water since 1965, when Mayor Eric Adams was 5 years old. "

 

Just keep changing the goal posts when you're backed into a corner. I've noticed it's been a recurring theme with you.

 

A cop car is parked on the street and i say its white and blue. You say - no its pink. Thats basically how you debate. Just deny everything. deny deny deny. You insist Wlad was undisputed so you have no issue peddling false narratives

This is obviously your first time hearing about the ring canvas debacle. You have no prior knowledge about how scandalous it was. You have no prior knowledge of Lennox Lewis being there when it was torn up. You have no prior knowledge of how Nelson documented Wlads ring canvas during fight weeks. Therefore you have no qualms whatsoever denying it ever happened. Just because YOU were unaware of it.
You did not follow this man career in real time. You followed him after his career it finished.

Larry Holms beat Norton who had an excellent jab. He produced jabbing clinics against Shavers.

Lewis pasted Vitali Klitschko with the jab. Name me one single fighter Wlad beat that was better than Vitali.
Lewis shut Tua , Briggs and Roddock completely out with the jab.

3rd time asking. What good jabber did Wlad ever out jab. ??

I previously pointed out how he refused to have a jab battle with Pulev who was probably the best jabber on his resume. Instead he opted for a wrestling match.

Incorrect. It was constant bending of the rules to allow him overcome two major weakness.


- Chin , stamina , inside fighting lack of - - Conserving energy , protecting the chin and nullifying inside work was achieved by resting his body over his opponents back. The images bellow depict this strategy.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/06/30/article-2010040-0CCE213000000578-927_634x422.jpg

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/14...=3leeXxZFab1QpISiUP2DqNgOoox5usgjFMIi2mWLO_Y=

https://cdn.prod.www.spiegel.de/ima...669_w520_r1.440922190201729_fpx34.7_fpy50.jpg

- Inability to keep opponents on the outside with the jab - - clipping from news media bellow will explain

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You're arguing Wlad is the 4th best jabber in HW history. For that to be true there needs to be more examples of producing jabbing clinics than clinch clinics.
But unfortunately for you the latter is true. His illegal clinching was far a more dominant attribute than his jab.

Ali out jabbed many great jabbers enough time to overrule some of his clinch fests. 3 times he fought Frazier. The rubber he wasn't to hold. But he went in there to prove he could do it.
WK would never have fought Povetkin again under those conditions.

Ali Bashir said the goal in that fight was to win by whatever means necessary and then "look good in the next one"
They knew that wrestling performance was the only way he could beat Povetkin.

If Wlad like you say is top 4 greatest jabbers id history , why was Antony Joshua more effective with the jab against Pov?

Watch this video and see how Aj systematically broke Pov down with effective use of the jab to various points on Pov head and body.

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You will surely deny this reality by undermining Povetkins ability. But Wlad was drapped all over old Mormek , Thompson and shot to bits Sam Peter. At that point Pov was much better than these guys , so it goes without saying Pov would be back humped just the same.
But AJ never needed illegal tactics and displayed a much better use of the jab than Wlad did.

Furthermore , Pov was supercharged on PEDS during this time. If not in this fight , the peds he was on previously helped him stay in top condition.

 

Holmes signed for the unification fight with Coetzee but the fight was called off due to lack of funding.

 

While I agree, Dino's hatred the Klitschkos is..... extreme to say the least....... the very poster you're replying to, has a vendetta against 60s and especially 70s heavies for some odd reason. Whenever a thread on the aforementioned heavies is posted, (especially Foreman), he'll come out of the woodworks to take snipes from the sidelines, while trying to portray objectivity for subjects he very obviously detests. What a sad sad man.

 

You're all over the ****ing place. First, you questioned the milage Liston should get from knocking Wepner's teeth out while seemingly accepting the underlying premise (and manufacturing a strawman in the process "Well Wlad's still more proven than Liston in power lolz" even though the poster you quoted didn't mention Wlad at all nor have a horse in this thread)

Now you're questioning the validity of the report altogether, and think the boxing commission, as well as Bethea's manager conspired to lie for some reason.

I suppose the dentist who removed several of Bethea's loose teeth for fear that he'd swallow them in his sleep, was in on the take as well.

 

Nobody's triggered. Your pathetic gaslighting attempts won't work here. I'm actually proud of you for finding the resolve to bring up Foreman only once in a thread that has nothing to do with him. Maybe there is hope for you after all to get out of your parasocial relationship.

 

I did not intend to make this a thread about Wlad but since we're here now.

I do not understand the vitriolic emotions in this thread. Wlad's a good champ I have no problem admitting why folks rate him highly.

That said, if my motive is to rip into what youse call criteria I'd say to you, you are as inconsistent and hypocritical as those who came before you.

You guys talk about things like resume while citing things like feats and performances as if Wlad has any of that.

Lineal seems to have some level of importance despite his lineage being him alone and without fighting the clear second placer during his time as champion, because that's his brother.

Time as champion seems super duper important, except, according to you lot Wlad's belts don't matter. Convenient then, youse cite a time frame as champion clearly marked by when he won a body belt. Not his lineal, ring, or any other alt title. 09-15 is 6 years buds. I've seen no one claim Wlad's time as champion begins when he became anything but a sanctioned champion.



What makes Wlad a great champion is his time in office while holding down 1/2 the world's mandos. You know it's true, it's damn true. It is the exceptional thing about him.

His size is not special. His style is literally amateur, I know youse claim it's euro, but no, his trainer did not hide it. Wlad sticks to a basic amateur style that focuses on sound fundamentals. Plenty respectable but nothing special. The only real stand outs during his time were his brother, the twilight years of marked careers, and a few lower weight step ups. The only thing special there is brothers tag teaming the division.

The exceptional thing about Wladimir Klitschko's career is his time as a HW champion and it is absolutely vital you recognize the bodies as what they are and mandos as what they are for this exceptionalism to be true.


Finally, to wrap this up nicely, your emotional responses show your hand more than any logical fallacy you present. The fact you have such emotion tied to the topic and take anything perceived as criticism for Wlad as criticism for yourself while being entirely hypocritical about anything you claim have value really just says Wlad's career gives you feels more than most and you'd fight tooth and nail to protect them.

 

He fought 2 second place guys (1 actually a first place) before Vitali came back and 2 second place guys after Vitali's last fight. Wlad reigned for almost 10 years as a title holder and Vitali was only active for 4 of those. It's not even a majority of his reign. So yeah, he didn't fight his brother for obvious reasons, but he beat every other top contender there was.

Yeah, but he won the IBF belt while beating the current number 1 HW in the world, which was Chris Byrd. Belts are not that important, but they can be a part of the story. For example: Wlad was the first and only unified champion in the division from 2002 when Lewis vacated the IBF belt until 2015 when Fury beat him. That tells us he never had problems with unifing. But even if we only take his time as the champion since June 2009, he defended the lineal title 11 times, which is 4th longest consecutive stretch in the history of the heavyweight division and 5th overall when it comes to the sole number of defences.

3/4 world's mandos. You can say IBF & WBO are a part of the original WBA all you want, but the reality is, they are 3 seperate sanctioning bodies, with their own rankings and enforcing their own fights, so managing 3 mandos instead of 1 is way harder.