Sonny Liston or Wladimir Klitschko who rates higher as a all time heavyweight?

You're skeptical about anything that makes a fighter you dislike look good.

When presented with the fact Holyfield stated Foreman hit him harder than anyone else, apparently this is where you're perfectly okay with conspiracy theories. You speculate that this is because they're both Christians so Holyfield is biased.

 

I think if an aggressive come forward fighter with similar dimensions to Liston beat Wladmir weighing a mere 10 lbs (average) more than Liston, then I absolutely do think Liston could be competitive with Wladmir whether he rehydrated/bulked or remained exactly the same. I do not believe the 10 lbs is some crucial difference that allowed Brewster to win.

Is that straightforward enough?

The "bare minimum" to make the fight happen would be to inform the fighter about significant rule changes like bigger gloves, ring sizes, neutral corner, number of rounds, etc. To deny all these factors and insist you just pluck the fighter out of his timeline and shove him in the ring would, again, lead to chaos and confusion.

It has nothing to do with Marciano fans wanting their fighter to be bigger. That's a strawman. My point is you can't cherry pick which of the various factors/changes you will leave "as is". If weight stays as is, what about glove size and so on?

If you want the thread to end with potential outcomes such as Liston being DQ'd for cursing out the ref because he demands 3 more rounds for the 15 round limit, or because he dies from COVID before he makes it into the arena, go ahead.

 

Should be clear Foreman hit like a freight train.

 

Well according to NoNeck, Holyfield was just being charitable to his fellow Christian.

Funnily enough, Holyfield also said he thinks Tyson might've beaten Foreman h2h despite him simultaneously thinking Foreman hits harder. I wonder if NoNeck will accept that particular quote?

 

I agree with him to a extent but I don't think we should completely rule out the view of fighters on the power of other fighters.

In the case of Foreman he proved his power when the heavyweights started getting a lot larger and across multiple era which wasn't the case with other guys in his era.

 

As I count it:
45 of Foreman's 68 KOs were technical. Leaving a total of 23 direct knockouts no technicality needed

Marciano has 19 technical out of his 43 KO leaving a total of 24 direct knockouts no technicality needed.

Just saying.





Foreman punches with more force.
Marciano punches with more power.





Boxing fans could do with some history, biology, and physics lessons. Y'all believe a lot of dumb **** and back it with nonsense like resume. Resume can not answer a physics question. Doesn't matter if the physics question uses boxers, their resumes can not answer a physics question. Duh.

I hate to be that guy whose a dick to the entire forum, but, it's true. These are not hard physics and what I just said youse, at least some, will find arguable where there should be none. I don't think Foreman employs more force any more than I think he is heavier. I know it.

While I am at it. Biologically speaking youse lot have it backwards. In no way are abnormally large men durable men. Their stamina is ass because their bones are ass, their hearts are ass, their lungs are ass, and their balance is ass. There is a reason average is average, that's who survives. Period. Biologically reflected. Before you tell me about someone's resume and feats, maybe just has a dip in basic biology.



You guys talk about who fought and did what to who way, way, way too much.

 

LOL ! You know Swag,that's not much of an exaggeration what a certain sceptic would need !

 

Holyfield denied using steroids and claimed that Benny Hin fixed a hole in his heart.

I'm glad that the points I've made over the years have stuck with you.

 

Who do you consider the hardest puncher?

 

The hardest punches I've witnessed in person were from Corrie Sanders. Seeing it live was a different feeling.

 

Wlad had such a long rein, I just cant see putting Liston over him.

 

Simply counting the number of clean KOs ignoring all other factors and context is surely going to lead to problems.

Lamar Clark had 40 clean, direct knockouts, beating both Foreman and Marciano's records for direct KOs. This is why quality of opposition is one of the best indicators of power.

 

What sticks with me is that you don't ever address anything someone says that pokes holes in your argument.

You would probably make for a great politician given how often you deflect and slip away from things.

 

Mate,you have started one helluva thread !

 

Out of curiosity’s sake who have you seen in person? I live in Buffalo NY. Safe to say I don’t get many fights my neck of the woods.